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Starting a campaign with a couple of friends tomorrow and we're starting at 500 points for the first battle. I've never played eldar before and only seen them played a couple times, so I was hoping for some insight on what to field for such a tiny arse army. My opponent will be using space marines.

What I have to work with: 40 guardians with 2 weapon platforms, avatar, viper, 5 warlocks, 2 farseers, 12 striking scorpions, 17 rangers/pathfinders, 5 howling banshees, 3 fire prisms, 2 wave serpent, 1 falcon, 3 wraithlords, 1 warwalker, and 13 jetbikes.

Thanks

use a farseer avatar an the guardians for sure an maybe 5 scorpian an 5 banshees i do not know the total point cost of all that but it might be to many points but that woul be a good way to start

Do you guys have a special FoC slotting or is it the standard 1 HQ 2 troop minimum, 1-2 HQ, 0-3 Elite, 2-6 Trp, 0-3 Fast, 0-3 heavy?

If it's less restricted I'd personally do:

1 Farseer on Jetbike w/ Fortune and Runes of Warding (proxy)
3 G Jetbikes
3 Swordlords

He'd be hard pressed to field anything that could take on 3 Wraithlords.

If you have the 2 troop min

2x 3 Guardian jetbikes
Farseer w/ Runes of Warding and Fortune
Warlock w/ Embolden/Spear
Warlock w/ Enhance/Spear
Warlock w/ Destuctor
Warlock w/ Destuctor
Serpent w/ Scatter Lasers

Hmm yes we are doing the 2 troop minimum. I am a big fan of Wraithlords though so what do you think about:

1 Farseer w/ Guide
3 G jetbikes
4 G jetbikes
1 Swordlord
1 Wraithlord w/ BL

I don't have a jetbike for the farseer unfortunately. I guess he can just roam around with the wraithlords to make sure they don't pansy out with wraithsight and guide the one with the brightlance lol...

Only ever run Wraithlords with Sword or with BL/EML. I personally do not like shooty lords one bit as I've never had luck and their point cost at that point is almost 3 Walkers.

If you want to go the MC route go with:

Avatar
2x 3 jetbikes (one with S Cannon to eat poitns if you have it)
2 Swordlords

Yeah good call. My Farseer was gonna be a waste anyways without a jetbike. I think I will actually try what you have thar. Thanks for the suggestions and I'll let you know how it goes.
We'll probably play the next battle right after which I think we're gonna use a 750pt list. Should I stick to the same plan or mix it up? And btw, my friend just told me that he will be using space marines.

Play the first round and get a feel for how things go and from there you can change up your list accordingly. Whatever you do don't say your bringing 2 Wraithlords or your going to get metaed against fast out of fear. Hint that your bringing a big Guardians pack list or something lol.

An Avatar and Lords would work very well as he's likely to take lots of Melta for the Wraithlords which your Avatar will laugh at - very nasty combo for such a small points game.

As a CSM player I don't like the Avatar one bit, then again it can be a total fail if it doesn't roll those invuns well.

BlueDagger wrote:Play the first round and get a feel for how things go and from there you can change up your list accordingly. Whatever you do don't say your bringing 2 Wraithlords or your going to get metaed against fast out of fear. Hint that your bringing a big Guardians pack list or something lol.

lawl maybe I'll just hint I'm using my CSM army. That'll fool 'em

I'd take a Doomseer and two squads of Guardians in Serpents.
This army is tough to beat as its fast and the enemy will not have enough heavy weapons to pop the Serpents.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take a Doomseer and two squads of Guardians in Serpents.
This army is tough to beat as its fast and the enemy will not have enough heavy weapons to pop the Serpents.

Oo? All it takes is one Anti-Tank shot to kill a Serpent lol

One very lucky AT shot to take down a serpent. At 500 points two serpents can be very tough indeed to take out. Of course, two WL can be very tough as well. WL basically could care less about melta, its just a str8 shot so it has a 50% chance to cause one wound, not as bad as a las cannon shot.

One thing to watch tho, is that you do need some ranged AT capability. Two sword lords will certainly hurt armor once they can get to it. But if its a vendetta they are chasing...goodnite. You want the capabilty to take out one nasty vehicle, because a lot of lists at this point level will be built around one nasty vehicle. Or two....picture your two sword lords chasing two serpents.

There are also the horde armies at 500 points. Orks led by PK nobs or warboss can put a LOT of bodies onto the table. And a sword lord hitting a mob with a PK nob is a dead WL.


The main thing to remember is that 500 point games are often strange games, heh.



Sliggoth

BlueDagger wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take a Doomseer and two squads of Guardians in Serpents.
This army is tough to beat as its fast and the enemy will not have enough heavy weapons to pop the Serpents.

Oo? All it takes is one Anti-Tank shot to kill a Serpent lol

Well, its not very likely. Not sure if you know much about mech Eldar.
The Serpent's energy field helps a lot.
All shots have 50% to glance or penetrate
and I not even considered the probability to hit and to destroy.

wuestenfux wrote:

BlueDagger wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'd take a Doomseer and two squads of Guardians in Serpents.
This army is tough to beat as its fast and the enemy will not have enough heavy weapons to pop the Serpents.

Oo? All it takes is one Anti-Tank shot to kill a Serpent lol

Well, its not very likely. Not sure if you know much about mech Eldar.
The Serpent's energy field helps a lot.
All shots have 50% to glance or penetrate
and I not even considered the probability to hit and to destroy.

Lol Eldar is the only thing I play and the odds are deceptive.

Yes the best you can get against front and side armor is a 4+, it's fantastic and has saved my butt a lot of times. The fact is that is still a 50% chance that an AP1 shot will get through. If you move full out you get a 50% chance to save, but are now destroyed even easier. This is all taking into account that your opponent doesn't CC you or get a rear shot off on you which sometimes is very difficult if your trying to get mid board late in the game.

Melta since it's the meta...
Front Armor/Side w/ S8 AP1 melta non-full out: 22% to Destroy
Front Armor/Side w/ S8 AP1 melta full out: 14% to Destroy
Rear Armor w/ S8 AP1 melta non-full out: ~50% to Destroy
Rear Armor w/ S8 AP1 melta non-full out: ~32% to Destroy


If it comes down to the survivability in a 500pt all comers game i personally feel that an Avatar/2 Wraiths would stand head and shoulders over 2 Serpents. Higher point games become a different story since people can afford to pack on a lot more anti-tank.

Of course, the avatar and two WL vs two serpents actually doesnt work out very well for the MC if they do go head to head.

Two scatter laser armed serpents will pose quite a problem for an avater and two sword lords, since its really only the avatar who can possibly hurt/ catch the serpents. While a mirror eldar match probably wasnt exactly what you meant, it does point out that the MC army does have some weaknesses. Fast armies are going to be a problem, whether they field serpents, vendettas or raiders.

Sword lords are also terribly vulnerable to power fist/ klaws hidden in regular squads.


Three MC might very well win the game at 500 points, its going to overtax many opponent's ability to deal with their toughness. But then there are armies that will just eat them up; just as there are many armies that will fail against fast av12 tanks. Small battles can often be very rock/ paper/ scissorish affairs.



Sliggoth

Yeah it was basically a wash. My opponent didn't wound anything.

Thanks for the help lol

Take a look at Lanchester's square law.
It comes also to bear when you field Serpents.
The enemy needs n^2 heavy weapons to take on n Serpents, in a simplified sense.