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So, I do not own the Chaos Daemons book, but I was wondering what the general consensus is amongst Dakkites about using the Daemons Codex instead of the Summoned Daemons in the CSM book.

All the standard rules would apply, I would pay the appropriate costs and summon them in as normal, but why use gimped versions of the Daemons since Horrors were made to have the same stats as Bloodletters.

The reason I am asking is because I usually played with my brother, but since he moved out and my dad stopped playing, I can't ask him, and I don't want to buy a whole other book + models if the consensus is against it.

When you say summon them in as normal, are you referring to the CSM summoning method or the daemon army 1/2 army/preferred half method?
If you do not own the Chaos Daemons codex you have no way of even knowing what their rules are or how they play.

There are many problems that would occur, and they would unbalance many things, such as the FOC (would you follow it for both, and avoid taking troops in one or the other, etc?).

So I would definitely say no in a normal game, however if it's alright with your opponent you can do whatever you like and that could be pretty fun.

When I said summon as normal, I meant using the CSM icons. And with the force organization chart, I would follow it with both (so, a unit of horrors is troops, but bloodcrushers would be... heavy support?)

While I do not own the Chaos Daemons book, I do know that the daemons are specialized and not just One-stat-fits-all, which is why the question/poll/thingy.

Thank you for the curteous reply.

Chaos daemons are not balanced for summoning onto CSM icons. Their normal summoning is to have 1/2 their army come in on turn 1 while the rest comes in piecemeal. CSM lesser daemons may assault after summoning, Chaos Daemons cannot. Chaos daemons are clearly stronger, and need that chance to scatter to lower their effectiveness.

If you are interested in Chaos Daemons, I would recommend going to your local store and viewing the codex there. You can then get a feel for the army and decide what you want to do.

I'll allow codex daemons to come from chaos icons, but they'd still be deployed via daemons. Meaning half of them [and you roll randomly] come on turn 1 but can't assault.

Using the daemons codex version of daemons but using the CSM method of summoning is unbalanced. That's why a lot of the daemons are cheap for what they have, because they're assumed to take that risk on the arrival. Being able to pop bloodletters down and assault with them would be very very nasty. Even in the old codex, when you placed the marker, you could scatter away and be out of range to charge.


I personally believe that the Warp Rift asset should be used with either - it's something that can be countered via Disruptor Beacons, crowding the portal, etc.

And this coming from the man who loves to complain about CSM. After flipping through Caemons and C:CSM earlier today with you Spellbound, I would agree that this would be a nasty thing.

In a competetive environment, definitely not. There is no rule allowing you to mix two codices together, except Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters.

If you were a regular gaming opponent, then I'd more than likely allow it, so long as you followed the guidelines Spellbound posted. They seem like a fair compromise.

I have wondered a few times whwy they didn't make CSM and proper daemons more compatible. You'd think it would make sense for Chaos marines and chaos daemons to work together (if they did you'd probably see a lot mor word bearer ans summoning armies around).

Spellbound wrote:I'll allow codex daemons to come from chaos icons, but they'd still be deployed via daemons. Meaning half of them [and you roll randomly] come on turn 1 but can't assault.

Using the daemons codex version of daemons but using the CSM method of summoning is unbalanced. That's why a lot of the daemons are cheap for what they have, because they're assumed to take that risk on the arrival. Being able to pop bloodletters down and assault with them would be very very nasty. Even in the old codex, when you placed the marker, you could scatter away and be out of range to charge.


I personally believe that the Warp Rift asset should be used with either - it's something that can be countered via Disruptor Beacons, crowding the portal, etc.

That sounds like a fair compromise.

Well, If I were to count the 2 maybes as both yes' and noes, we are at 8/12. Doesn't seem like I will be investing in daemons (unless GW makes the lists compatible). Which is fine by me, still have a lot to collect.

Personally, I don't think it would be balanced. The chaos space marines and chaos demons are both perfectly viable armies by themselves. Combining them allows too wide a range of tactics and ultimately limits the focus of the Chaos army as a whole, which is the reason they got split in the first place. As it is, the summoned daemons are a way of incorporating daemons into your Chaos Space Marines force that allows you to make use of that thematic element without creating an overpowered force.

Praxiss wrote:I have wondered a few times whwy they didn't make CSM and proper daemons more compatible. You'd think it would make sense for Chaos marines and chaos daemons to work together (if they did you'd probably see a lot mor word bearer ans summoning armies around).

because the chaos codex was a rushed, ill conceived book designed to plug the gap where Orks had model issues.

They simplified the book as much as possible so it was at least vaguely balanced, and required no additional model support for release.

No...what more do you need to know? Seriously...

Voted maybe. Completely unbalanced from a competitive point of view, but could be fun in a friendly game or scenario.

Maybe:

If you were playing me, I would prefer you use both dexes separately. Minimum compulsory FOC satisfied from both dexes and just play the two armies synergistically. As long as you are not mixing rules or FOC.