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I just got told that my 2nd ed Carnifex is no longer legal to play due to the size of the new Carnifex and cover rules. This seems like bs because i can still WYSIWYG them and they are still official GW Pieces... Is this guy just being an ass or is that an official ruling?

I would have to say that it is BS as well, only because I have seen tournaments allow those tiny Trukks that the Orks have from earlier editions. Obviously it is something to work out before the game or ask your TO if it is a legal figure to play in the game, although I do not know of any rules that disallows the use of old edition figures that are still in the Codex (unlike Old One Eye not being in the 4th edition 'nid codex).

Again, this is something to work out with your opponent/TO before the game to be on the safe side.

Edit: BTW, could you post a pic with your 'fex next to another figure like a Guardsman or Space Marine? I'm just curious as to the size

I just ordered a new camera, Ill PM you once I post the pic. Roughly the same size as the SM Dreads, However I have not seen the New Figs for the fex.

Correct answer: being an ass. It's a legit GW model after all. My mates still use the old SM dreads... They're smaller targets but also provide less cover and have a worse time tracing LOS for their own shooting so it evens out.

As long as it is on the same base size as the new fexes, I wouldn't think anything of it.

puma713 wrote:As long as it is on the same base size as the new fexes, I wouldn't think anything of it.

Why destroy an old school model with an out of place new base? No, it should be mounted on the 40 mm square base that came with it.

There is no rule requiring you to swap to a newer model in the standard 40K rules.

Nor is there any rule requiring you to re-base it.


So long as it is armed appropriately, it is legal to use.

Of course, tournament organisers can rule that OOP models are illegal for their own events. And in a friendly game, your opponent can decide that he doesn't want to play against an army containing OOP models, just as he can decide to alter any other game rules. It's up to the two of you to determine whether it's worth coming to some sort of agreement, or simply not play.

What Insaniak said.

puma713 wrote:As long as it is on the same base size as the new fexes, I wouldn't think anything of it.

Which would not be follwing the rules. You can only base the model on the base it came with - you are not given any permission to rebase it.

Indeed. In fact, rebasing it is BREAKING the rules, not following them. There is nothing wrong with using old 2nd ed models.

HAHA Thanks Guys. The guy was telling me it was not legal for Official Tournament Play either. That was what had my blood up. Bad enough i had to banish a few grands worth of squats to the attic. After getting asshatted out of a whole army I just came back to 40k and i was about to quit again due to the idea of having to buy all new figs every few years if i dont play SM. I will Inform the jackass not to speak for GW when he does not know WTF he's talking about.

Quientin wrote:Bad enough i had to banish a few grands worth of squats to the attic.

You don't, really. A lot of players just proxy them as Guard or Marines.

Why "proxy" use them as "converted" imperial guard regiment thats short. they have lasguns.

lixulana wrote:Why "proxy" use them as "converted" imperial guard regiment thats short. they have lasguns.

That's the very definition of a Proxy, using a different model to represent something else.

Yeah the official cannon says no more proxy of squats as IG or Orks. but im sure i can throw em in with the Demiurg when they come round.

good morning dakka dakka

Quientin wrote:Yeah the official cannon says no more proxy of squats as IG or Orks.

Pardon?

The only 'official' word on Squats is the entry in the front of the Inquisition War novels that says that the Squat Homeworlds were eaten by a Tyranid Hive Fleet. GW have never said that you can't use your Squat models.

I've been using Screamer Killers for yonks and prefer them to the new models.

Is this legal for any out-dated model? Old vs new Carnifex are similar. What about, say, the old Avatar?

Soup and a roll wrote:Is this legal for any out-dated model?

Beyond the normal conventions of WYSIWYG, there is nothing saying you have to update any of your models.


Where equipment changes, you will of course need to either replace outdated options or proxy them as something else. But otherwise, a model is a model.


You may run into some players who frown on older models where the size has changed significantly, as with the Avatar, or Chaos Obliterators, for example, as it affects the model's LOS profile, or close combat where base sizes have changed. If this sort of thing is a concern where you play, you can usually get around it fairly easily with a little 'creative' basing, to bring the model up to the same height as the current version. But from my experience, most players just don't care that much, and will as likely as not be more than happy just to see old models on the table...

Quientin wrote:HAHA Thanks Guys. The guy was telling me it was not legal for Official Tournament Play either. That was what had my blood up. Bad enough i had to banish a few grands worth of squats to the attic. After getting asshatted out of a whole army I just came back to 40k and i was about to quit again due to the idea of having to buy all new figs every few years if i dont play SM. I will Inform the jackass not to speak for GW when he does not know WTF he's talking about.

Yeah he's an ass, I had an issue or two when I broke back into 40k and people didn't know what half my models were '1st/2nd edition bugs are so radically different from what they are now.

On the upside, if you don't mind painting you can make an absolute killing in trades old models for new, my army nearly doubled in size (and I think the new models are way cooler anyway) Some collectors are really passionate about the older stuff.

haha my charlie (very old dread) was unknown virtually unknown near the end of 2nd. Maybe i should bust him out of storage and see what 5th ed players do... but most of em are baffeled by all pewter figs from the not so distant past. i find myself wondering what they'd do if they saw my tiny dread that looks like a crappy mechanical T-Rex from MST3k.

All the prices went up on the figs and the materials in them are so much cheaper.... and we still pay. yes the new Fexs look so much sweeter than the ones I have. But one is 3 pounds of pewter and the other is 3 ounces of plastic... and twice the price to boot. Does anyone else feel like the combo of the price AND materials change is akin to anal rape? It really feels that way especially when Im having people refuse to play my 2nd ed figs. Not just the FEX but my old landraiders, rhinos, and razorbacks. Its not like i tried to place thudd guns and mole mortars on the table, or my plethora of rapier destroyers, everything was WYSIWYG after a quick conversion putting some of my squats heavy bolters on the Razorback instead of the ol lascannon/twin plasma gun combo platter of yesteryear. WTFs with people who came in at 5th ed???

anyhow thanks for explaining the legality of oop figs to me. sorry for ranting

The price change can be explained easily. For one, money is worth more since the 25 years ago when GW first started. $30 then is like $50 now. Also, the 3 ounce plastic model was created usiing very expensive molding technology and the cost needs to be repaid by raising the prices of the models. Also the new models are excrutiaitingly (sp?) detailed compaired to the old metal behemoths of pewter. I still field some of the old robots for my Space Marines and do counts as servitors. Hell they are twice as big as servitor models. Most people don't mind. Sounds like the people giving you grief really just want to be dicks about this kinda thing. Hell, you can buy a model and make him posed so he is crawling just above the base. "F your line of sight, my army is less than an inch off the ground. They can hide behind piles of raked up leaves." MU HU HWA!

Um, OK!

Odd, and old, so... closed!