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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/04/03 06:41:04
Subject: First run at a 'Ardboyz list
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Hey Dakka. Please tear it up. All constructive feed back welcome.
2500 Pts - Space Marines Roster
HQ: Captain Cato Sicarius (1#, 200 pts)
1 Captain Cato Sicarius @ 200 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Iron Halo; Mantle of Suzerain; Plasma Pistol; Talassarian Tempest Blade; And They Shall Know No Fear; Battle-forged Heroes; Combat Tactics; Feel No Pain; Independent Character; Rites of Battle; Surprise Attack!)
HQ: Space Marine Librarian (1#, 100 pts)
1 Space Marine Librarian @ 100 pts (...in Power Armour; Null Zone; The Avenger)
1 ...in Power Armour (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Psychic Hood; Bolt Pistol; Force Weapon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics; Independent Character; Psyker)
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 285 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 285 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Lascannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Bolter; Power Fist; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 270 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 270 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Flamer; Missile Launcher; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Bolter; Power Fist; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 285 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 285 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun; Lascannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)
Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 285 pts)
9 Tactical Squad @ 285 pts (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Plasmagun; Lascannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics; Razorback)
1 Sergeant (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Melta Bombs; Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Squads; Combat Tactics)
1 Razorback (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Transport Capacity: 6 models; Access Points: 3; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Lascannon and TL Plasmagun)
Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 120 pts)
1 Predator @ 120 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Lascannon (each side))
Heavy Support: Vindicator (1#, 115 pts)
1 Vindicator @ 115 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Tank); Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Demolisher Cannon; Storm Bolter)
Heavy Support: Thunderfire Cannon (1#, 100 pts)
1 Thunderfire Cannon @ 100 pts (Unit Type: Artillery; Thunderfire Cannon)
1 Techmarine Gunner (Unit Type: Infantry; Krak Grenades; Artificer Armour; Servo Harness; Bolt Pistol; Thunderfire Cannon; And They Shall Know No Fear; Blessing of the Omnissiah; Bolster Defenses; Combat Tactics; Independent Character)
1 Servo Harness
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (3#, 150 pts)
3 Attack Bike Squad @ 150 pts (Unit Type: Bikes; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x3; Multi-Melta x3; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
Fast Attack: Attack Bike Squad (3#, 120 pts)
3 Attack Bike Squad @ 120 pts (Unit Type: Bikes; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Space Marine Bike; Bolt Pistol x3; Heavy Bolter x3; And They Shall Know No Fear; Combat Tactics)
Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (2#, 180 pts)
2 Land Speeder Squadron @ 180 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Skimmer, Fast); Heavy Bolter x2; Typhoon Missile Launcher x2; Deep Strike)
Elite: Ironclad Dreadnought (1#, 145 pts)
1 Ironclad Dreadnought @ 145 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dreadnought CCW; Meltagun; Seismic Hammer; Heavy Flamer; Move Through Cover)
Elite: Ironclad Dreadnought (1#, 145 pts)
1 Ironclad Dreadnought @ 145 pts (Unit Type: Vehicle (Walker); Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Dreadnought CCW; Meltagun; Seismic Hammer; Heavy Flamer; Move Through Cover)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/04/03 07:41:35
Subject: First run at a 'Ardboyz list
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I think you have a solid core (the librarian and tacs in razorbacks) but after that.. I get confused. lol. But don't take powerfists on your sarges. .87 statistical wounds is not going to save you from any combat that you weren't going to lose in the first place. Save the 25 points each squad for elsewhere. If you're taking razorbacks, why are you taking 10 man squads? You don't want to give your opponent something to shoot at with his anti-infantry weapons. Either take rhinos, or drop to 5 man squads. What exactly do you plan on doing with sicarius? I really don't see what he adds to this list at all.. Your heavies seem very confused. Thunderfire cannons seem great, considering they have some of the best anti-infantry weaponry in the game, but they are ridiculously fragile. The artillery rules completely dick them over, and even with being able to get cover save shenanigans on the unit, you will not live very long if you're shot at at all. They also do absolutely nothing to tanks, and are unfortunately relegated only to anti infantry as well, which means they won't be that effective in quite a few games. The vindicator- again, seems awesome, but they have some issues- the biggest being how easy it is to make them ineffective- cover saves, short range combined with immobilized results, and it just has one big gun, a weapon destroyed neuters the vehicle as well. The predator on the other hand, has a number of guns, and has better range, and can be quite cheap. The autocannon/las is okay, but is quite expensive, and lacks duality. But if this is what you prefer, I would suggest taking more than just one, this way you don't depend on just one of anything. But I prefer just the plain autocannon/hb pred for just 85 points. I like the idea of ironclads, but the problem is that they have no range whatsoever, and they are quite slow. This again makes it quite easy for your opponent to make them ineffective. Just plain dreads with MM and DCCW (for the AT and nice CC punch) or 2 TL AC dread (for the highly accurate, long range firepower) will do more for you. It depends upon your playstyle to determine which one you will want. If you just look at pure AT abilities, the attack bikes win out over the land speeder with MM/HF because of the price difference. But you gain nice duality and movement blocking capabilities. So after this we have: Librarian 100 Null zone Gate Dreadnought x3 345 MM/HF 5 Tactical Marines x6 990 Razorback Las/TL Plas 3 Land Speeders x2 420 MM/HF 3 Land Speeders 270 Predator x3 360 AC/Las 2485 (spend the leftover points on combis or something lol) The above list gets more scoring units, and a lot more vehicles, and doesn't have any infantry on the table the first turn either. Alternatively you can swap the lascannons on the preds into for heavy bolters, and then get the autocannons for the dreadnoughts instead. Again, up to your playstyle.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/03 07:42:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/04/03 21:12:10
Subject: Re:First run at a 'Ardboyz list
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Preacher of the Emperor
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Actually, your list has less scoring units. Mine right now has 8. I'm one of the few Marine players who actually uses combat squads regularly I guess. Cato brings his Rites of Battle to the list, making all my little combat squads and the attack bike squadrons LD 10. Huge buff in my book. The iron clads are mostly intended to fill a counter assault role. The meltagun makes them a threat to transports that get too close and the 3 I4, S10 attacks a piece can make a dent in something. The AV13 also handily makes them immune to everything but melta bombs and powerfists in close combat.
My heavies might seem a little confused, but each brings a unique piece to the Army. The Vindicator helps thin out LRs and big, high toughness units. The predator is my anti-AV 12 piece. The Thunderfire is good for thinning out all infantry, including MEQs and TEQs through sheer number of wounds caused. I think they all complement the army as a whole. I chose ABs over speeders for the ability to assault after shooting something. With turbo boost, they can interdict movement corridors almost as good as a landspeeder.
I appreciate the feed back, but I think you're headed in a direction I'd rather avoid. Right now, I think I have an effective MSU build because each unit is capable of handling a few different tasks even if its not the optimal build for any of them. By specializing, I think I make my opponent's target priority easier and make the list as a whole a little more fragile.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/04/03 22:19:56
Subject: First run at a 'Ardboyz list
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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The problem is definitely in your random heavy support choices - if you present a single unit at 2500 points that does a job it will not survive more than a turn against an army that is vulnerable to it.
I see, for instance, that you have a good amount of lascannons and melta weapons, but you will be screwed by things like tervigons pumping out tons of foot troops. You need something that deals with troops.
Now, all three of your choices kind of do that. Thunderfire is out because it is not manoeverable enough, so pick between predators (AC w/ HB sponsons) or vindicators and get three of them.
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Q: How many of a specific demographic group are required to carry out a simple task?
A: An arbitrary number. One to carry out the task in question, and the remainder to act in a manner stereotypical of the group.
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