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I am not frothing at the mouth over this health care bill like some members of society, but I do expect a certain standard from our public servants. I think that this guy needs to have been voted out of office yesterday. Any Congressman who says, "I don't care about the Constitution," should not be allowed to serve. Maybe I am just a bit overzealous, but I find this sort of stuff to be inexcusable...
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
I wanted to post something funny and agree with you. But I don't.
1) The cameraman was a jackass and clearly had no idea what he was talking about.
2) You took his words out of context. "I Don't care about the Constitution" vs "I Don't think the Constitution really matters all that much in this" Those are two very different things.
He's not arguing that they should do away with the constitution, he's saying that the constitution doesn't say anything regarding healthcare one way or another and therefore isn't relevant in the making of this Bill.
I feel sorry for the guy becuase he's been accosted by these two ignorant jackals who are looking for a laugh and don't give him a chance to speak. He does actually try to answer their question but they drown him out with accusations of being a liar. He's the one who's trying to be reasonable here.
JEB, I am disappoint.
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
I'm definitely seeing a man who's being hounded for one slight slip. He cares about the constitution, he was just sidetracked and said it more forcefully than he meant. I don't know anything else about this guy, he could be using this entirely for his own motives, but in this he's right, you've got to help people, which he puts across as he wants to do.
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Bookwrack wrote:So the tile should really be, "OP Fail?"
Spelling fail.
Seriously, The Constitution is a piece (or several?, it matters not...) of paper. I think he's right to care more about the lives of vulnerable human beings. Rules are there to be made, re-made, broken, changed... 'amended', even.
That's about the worst quality debate I've heard, and I've been on the internet.
That thing where he says 'I don't care about the constitution' you can see it's an off-hand remark, let's focus on this thing about covering kids because that really matters. It was poorly worded, and the rightwinger saying 'jackpot!' and figuring he can score points pretty easy from there is predictable and well, what he should do. The congressman really should have stopped, and clarified his point along the lines 'I don't care for the argument that it isn't constitutional because it's bunk and meanwhile there's real issues to debate such as 30 million uninsured blah blah'. Instead he just barrels on while we can all see him thinking 'that was stupid why did I say that and oh I've just said it again'.
The conversation gets worse from there...
'this'll bring healthcare to 30 million.'
'no it won't'
'says who'
'says everybody'
And then, perhaps most impressively, the rightwinger ends up wandering off on such a stupid tangent ('it takes 5.6 days to read a bill' - what is that?) the congressman does the only sensible thing and walks out, because there was no saving that debate, at all. Really, grade schools kids ought to be embaressed if they put up that level of debate. I guess the thing is that the rightwingers in this case are just local goobs, so you can't condemn them too greatly (they're no worse than most of the pundits out there), but the other guy is a congressman. He really should be miles better than that, and he should be able to destroy that quality of challenge.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Now I find this to be very interesting. He said, "I don't care about the Constitution." That is bad enough to me, and I doubt non-Americans can appreciate just how much this document means to us, but there is more to this. I take things like this very seriously, and this is not some cheap shot by me. The Constitution is not there to serve anyone it is there to ensure the rule of law, plain and simple. Is this bill Constitutional? I don't know, some say yes, and others say no. If, or probably when, it goes before the SCOTUS we will find out. I know the interviewer is an idiot, but that doesn't give the Congressman from being just as dumb. I haven't found a lot of great response to this so far, just a bunch of blabbering. Come on guys think about this a little bit, and why it bugs me. If you think that I am so petty as to worry about this video, and a lone Congressman saying something stupid, then you have me all wrong....
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
It just goes to show the quality of elected officials. Or lack thereof.
Yeah, it wasn't really a slip. He said he doesn't care about the constitution and it's relevance to HC. Sorry Jeb I love my country as much as you do (maybe more) but he did say he didn't care what it meant concerning HC. Badly worded and could be taken out of context but I honestly don't think he meant what it sounded like he said or implied.
I'm an extreme lover of this country and it's documents but that cameraman was an idiot in thinking or assuming the congressman said something entirely opposite to what he meant.
For once I agree with Sebster. Hmmm......
Must be the Red Thirst gripping me after having read the new BA codex today.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/03 20:26:59
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
JEB_Stuart wrote:If you think that I am so petty as to worry about this video, and a lone Congressman saying something stupid, then you have me all wrong....
Then why are you worrying about this video and a lone congressman not even saying something particularly stupid? My suggestion would be get a grip, and a better sense of perspective because like I asked before, 'should this be called 'OP fail?' because there is nothing in that video to justify the response you're having.
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Fateweaver wrote:Sorry Jeb I love my country as much as you do (maybe more) but he did say he didn't care what it meant concerning HC. Badly worded and could be taken out of context but I honestly don't think he meant what it sounded like he said or implied.
Poorly worded on my part. I was referencing his care about the Constitution in relation to HC. That is one major aspect that bugged me, but there is more to it...
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
Fateweaver wrote:For once I agree with Sebster. Hmmm......
That can't be good.
Must be the Red Thirst gripping me after having read the new BA codex today.
Did you like it? Because I haven't read it yet so I don't know, but if you like I can start thinking up reasons to hate it
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Bookwrack wrote:Then why are you worrying about this video and a lone congressman not even saying something particularly stupid?
Well, it was particularly stupid...
Bookwrack wrote:My suggestion would be get a grip, and a better sense of perspective because like I asked before, 'should this be called 'OP fail?' because there is nothing in that video to justify the response you're having.
Think of this then in an exercise in critical thinking, which I would like to think y'all are capable of performing. Stop being reactionary to my post, which I will admit was poorly worded (Damn Internets!!!!), and actually focus and think. Those who know me better should understand what I am getting at, but maybe not...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/03 20:37:52
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
Fateweaver wrote:Sorry Jeb I love my country as much as you do (maybe more) but he did say he didn't care what it meant concerning HC. Badly worded and could be taken out of context but I honestly don't think he meant what it sounded like he said or implied.
Poorly worded on my part. I was referencing his care about the Constitution in relation to HC. That is one major aspect that bugged me, but there is more to it...
I'm still not following the thought that he doesn't care about the Constituion in and of itself, which is what the cameraman was implying. He said he didn't care in relation to how it pertains to HC. I'm as against the HC Bill as most, maybe more than most on this forum and I sure as hell have no time for people who try to blow off the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Just not seeing how he was literally saying he didn't care about the Constitution.
I'll have to go back and watch it over a few times. Maybe I missed something when I watched it (only watched it once so far).
Though the cameraman was still a prick, regardless if Mr. Politician meant what he said or what some think he said.
Seb, expect a PM soon so we don't derail the thread with BA talk.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
I am more concerned by the fact that this politician took the time of day to participate in this conversation, as he was clearly lacking the ability to do so at the time. He made more than one obvious mistake, to some of the worst debate points I have heard of.
"Consitution..."
"People's lives..."
"Constitution..."
"I am not particularly concerned about that in this context. What about people's lives FFS!"
"Who cares about people's lives when we have a constitution!?"
"...Rage face..."
"GOTCHA! HURRHURR!"
Here is Congressman Hare's response. Clear as day without some gotcha journalist hawking over his statements.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/04/03 22:59:03
Well, that is better. Leave it to the Right-wing to blow it out of proportion. I'll bet you my left Testicle that Fox will have a field day over this guy.
EDIT: he doesn't even say, I don't care about the constitution, he says, "I don't worry about the Constitution on this" Which menas, he obviously thinks that the bill is within the the laws of the Constitution. Hell, I don't even get how this bill is unconstitutional. Just Right-wingers hounding him over a statement taken out of context and blown out of proportion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/04/03 23:42:47
YOU HAZ MY COW!
I ARE THE COW GAWD! I HAZ THE COW POWAH!
Fateweaver, I am surprised. I honestly didn't think you had it in you to decry anything from the right. Hat's off man.
Our founding documents arn't perfect, that's why amendments were added.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/04/03 23:35:08
And whilst you're pointing and shouting at the boogeyman in the corner, you're missing the burglar coming in through the window.
Well, Duh! Because they had a giant Mining ship. If you had a giant mining ship you would drill holes in everything too, before you'd destory it with a black hole
sebster wrote:The conversation gets worse from there...
'this'll bring healthcare to 30 million.'
'no it won't'
'says who'
'says everybody'
'oh yeah?'
'yeah'
'nu-uh'
'yuh-huh'
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
sebster wrote:That's about the worst quality debate I've heard, and I've been on the internet.
Sigged.
Manchu wrote:EF had this summed up at post 2.
EF, you are a man now.
Also sigged. I can has man-card now pleez?
On a lighter note, we've seen JEB post a (maybe-not-so-well-thought-out) thread condemning lefties and arguing against the Healthcare Bill. Then we see Fateweaver arguing against it. Clearly it's (not?) opposite day today.
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
That type of arguing is typical of the type of thing that you see on shows like hannity and so forth. Stuff like that make me embarassed to be a Republican.
I can admit my side doesn't always do things right but I tire of hearing how only the right wingers have nutcases and that the left is right and perfect and fair.
Both sides have their nutjobs, both sides make mistakes and both point fingers at the other party. The right might have the Tea Party but the left has..........well, the entire left side is a bunch of loons and about as transparent when it comes to bipartisanship as a black velvet curtain (which, unless you are Superman, isn't transparent at all).
My side has it's idiots and feths up, just not as much as the left. LOL.
Hah, got my cheap jab in.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/04 06:58:44
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
Fateweaver wrote:I can admit my side doesn't always do things right but I tire of hearing how only the right wingers have nutcases and that the left is right and perfect and fair.
Both sides have their nutjobs, both sides make mistakes and both point fingers at the other party. The right might have the Tea Party but the left has..........well, the entire left side is a bunch of loons and about as transparent when it comes to bipartisanship as a black velvet curtain (which, unless you are Superman, isn't transparent at all).
My side has it's idiots and feths up, just not as much as the left. LOL.
Hah, got my cheap jab in.
I agree there are certainly loons on both sides, i think the right was seen to be more extreme because it become very dangerous to be moderate, it got to the point were the GOP was decrying any republican who worked with the dems on anything.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
Fateweaver wrote:I can admit my side doesn't always do things right but I tire of hearing how only the right wingers have nutcases and that the left is right and perfect and fair.
Both sides have their nutjobs, both sides make mistakes and both point fingers at the other party. The right might have the Tea Party but the left has..........well, the entire left side is a bunch of loons and about as transparent when it comes to bipartisanship as a black velvet curtain (which, unless you are Superman, isn't transparent at all).
My side has it's idiots and feths up, just not as much as the left. LOL.
Hah, got my cheap jab in.
I agree there are certainly loons on both sides, i think the right was seen to be more extreme because it become very dangerous to be moderate, it got to the point were the GOP was decrying any republican who worked with the dems on anything.
How about the liberals calling black conservatives Uncle Toms?
Both sides are equally bad.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
On a lighter note, we've seen JEB post a (maybe-not-so-well-thought-out) thread condemning lefties and arguing against the Healthcare Bill. Then we see Fateweaver arguing against it. Clearly it's (not?) opposite day today.
Clearly it is, since it wasn't the politician that failed....
Another disappointing thread :( I was expecting a politician face planting or something...
Fateweaver wrote:I can admit my side doesn't always do things right but I tire of hearing how only the right wingers have nutcases and that the left is right and perfect and fair.
Both sides have their nutjobs, both sides make mistakes and both point fingers at the other party. The right might have the Tea Party but the left has..........well, the entire left side is a bunch of loons and about as transparent when it comes to bipartisanship as a black velvet curtain (which, unless you are Superman, isn't transparent at all).
My side has it's idiots and feths up, just not as much as the left. LOL.
Hah, got my cheap jab in.
I agree there are certainly loons on both sides, i think the right was seen to be more extreme because it become very dangerous to be moderate, it got to the point were the GOP was decrying any republican who worked with the dems on anything.
How about the liberals calling black conservatives Uncle Toms?
Both sides are equally bad.
I agreed with you fate I was merely saying why people are annoyed with the right. Both sides are very very stupid
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
251 point Khador Army
245 points Ret Army
