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I've been looking at a ton of IG lists recently, and very few of the mechanized ones take the signature IG vehicle, the Leman Russ. Is there any blatantly obvious reason for this?

They cost too much and tend to kill too little and most lists have ways to kill them that work less well on hidden artillery.

An entirely mechanized unit has very little need for generalized armored units when it can spend its points more efficiently on cheaper, more specialized units.

At my FLGS guard players run one of 3 lists. The Vendetta Air Cav list, the Chinese army list, or the Afrika Korps. The Afrika Korps (what we call the Leman Russ list) is stupid deadly and very, very hard to beat. He takes a very strong mix of troops, Banewolves and Leman Russ Executioners. I would say that his army is built for maximum killing across a wide spectrum or armies. Has he lost? Sure, but those days are few and far between...

The only Russ I run competitively in a mech list is the executioner. I occasionally run a vanquisher, but thats ore because I like the model rather than its combat effectiveness

The Chimera hulled tanks tend be more points efficient for the weapons/output you're getting. The survivability of the Russes is cool, but you can usually be getting 1.5-3 Chimera Hulled HS pieces (artillery/Manticore/Hydras) per Russ (assuming you take one with a strong main weapon and PC sponsons). Sure you get really terrifying output from an Executioner/Demolisher with sponson PCs but if they shake (or worse) the Russ, you've got 200+ points just sitting around. If they damage one of your artillery pieces then you've got a pile more waiting for them.

Basically, the cheaper Chimera hulled choices allow you to take A LOT more stuff. More vehicles = more guns = better target saturation.

Russ options might have more of a place in a hybrid mech or largely static/gunline type of army, but I can't say for sure how valuable they are to those list types as I have very little experience with them.

executioner is fantastic demolisher aint to bad either. Although Creed makes leman russ's a little bit more scary. Nothing like having an outflanking russ pop out of nowhere to ruin your day. Then again, you'd have to play a creed list.

I have 2x LRBT with Heavy bolters and a naked Demolisher (hull heavy flamer) in my Mech Vets lsit.

Each tank is about the same cost as Manticore, and are cheaper than a max Hydra battery. As such, they are cheap ehough to still allow tons of killy things in my list. They also have no minimum range like most of the specialized artilery, which really help out against fast lists that can close the gap quickly.

Finally, i have found that the addition of AV14 really helps with armor saturation in my local meta, as I don't have to screen LRs with my scoring Chimeras, as I have to do with Chimera-hull based heavy support (if I want the heavies to live); this allows my Chimeras movement to be far more flexible, as they are only being used as transports and not on the double duty of transporting units and screening my heavies.


Also, if the opponent is firing at my AV14 LRs, they usually absorb quite a bit of AT fire, which keeps my Chimeras/Vends alive alot longer. If they aren't firing AT at my LRs, then they are eating pie plates....either way works for me. I just really like having that AV14 better than having a pure AV12 list.

Yeah, it's a 3 AV12 chimeras w/ squads v 2 AV14 russes. While the chimeras are individually weaker, the extra target saturation makes up for losses in durability.

That said, were I to play a mech list, I would definitely bring some AV14. Your opponents are going to be bringing anti-AV14 stuff, which is going to be able to do an uncomfortable amount of damage to AV12. I'd rather have those railguns and drop pod meltas pointed at russes than at the real units (chimeras), at least until they've delivered their cargo.

My list has two standard LR tanks with Lascannons in my 1500pt list. They blow marines apart and demand respect....i run them on either side of a Chimera rush to protect the flanks of the softer APCs. I am new to guard but i always find a way to put at least one LR in a list-- 750pt to 2000 they all get at least one.

I use 3 Russ tanks in my mechanized Imperial Guard army, basic Leman Russ battle tanks. Basically, the Leman Russ tanks are there to provide a bullwark against stuff like lascannons, and to serve as a big stick for exposed enemy infantry units. Generally how it works is my vendetta's destroy transports, my command squads move to get into melta range against other enemy armor threats, the leman russ tanks smack whatever gets out of the transports, and the infantry squads and their chimeras mop up whatever they can see. The LRBT's are important for the AV14, not just the cannon.

Out of the probably sixty or so games I've played with that list, I think I've lost twice?

Vaktathi wrote:I use 3 Russ tanks in my mechanized Imperial Guard army, basic Leman Russ battle tanks. Basically, the Leman Russ tanks are there to provide a bullwark against stuff like lascannons, and to serve as a big stick for exposed enemy infantry units. Generally how it works is my vendetta's destroy transports, my command squads move to get into melta range against other enemy armor threats, the leman russ tanks smack whatever gets out of the transports, and the infantry squads and their chimeras mop up whatever they can see. The LRBT's are important for the AV14, not just the cannon.

Out of the probably sixty or so games I've played with that list, I think I've lost twice?

do you run them in a squadron, each alone...?

and i agree with what Vaktathi said. in my current 1500 pt. list i run 2 naked Russes squadroned together. that leave me room for the Hydras and Manticore.

I run them each alone. My 1750pt list is 2 mechanized infantry platoons with a PCS sporting 4 meltas, and AC/GL infantry squads, a CCS with an officer of the fleet and 4 meltas in a chimera, 3 Vendetta's and 3 LRBT's on their own. The alpha strike of the vendetta's+LRBT's against transports and then their occupants has won me many a game on turn 1.

"The Leman Rust Battle Tank has production has been discontinued since 40,005 because they are slow and unreliable having trouble keeping up with other vehicles and suffer unacceptable losses to assault units. Only 2nd line units still use their old Leman Rusts"

Russes just aren't as good as they used to be.

AV14 front really is a bit over rated. The Melta and Multi Melta craze and the 5th lame rule where assault hit on rear armor marginalizes the Russes AV14 front.

The single large ap2 or ap3 template most of the Russ variants fire also isn't as good as you think it is after scatter and all the cover saves.

Lumbering Behemoth does let you shoot another weapon but it can bite you when your moving on for dawn of war and roll low or when you need to get to an objective or away from an assault unit.

The only Leman Russ I like at all is the Executioner for its 5 Plasma cannons. Its good versus deepstrikers in combination with mystics and is good for killing marines that fall out of a transport and can kill terminators.

Other Heavy Support offer other options.
Manticore offers D3 Strength 10 AP4 large templates which helps with the scatter and is effective against both vehicles and infantry and has a really good range and can fire indirect to help with cover saves.

Hydras offer long range anti transport on turn 1 and negate skimmer moving fast saves.

I have recently fallen in love with a particular type of leman russ that no one has been really using.

My old heavy support set up was...

manticore
manticore
2x hydra

I liked the range, and the long range land raider kill of the manticore. But I didn't really like the lack of anything particularly intimidating to space marines. With blood angels armies popping up left and right and with feel no pain falling out of their ears, I wanted to get some more plasma. So I was about to change to this config.

Executioner with plasma sponsons
2x hydra
2x hydra

Just for laughs, I flipped through my IG book and took a look at the russes again. Then I realized that I could run nearly the same firepower I was about to run, but entirely armor 14, and more redundant/flexible to boot.

So I fielded three leman russ exterminators with plasma cannon sponsons. I was skeptical as you'd expect. But i played with them and fell in love after the second game. When you run the single executioner, and you face CSM or blood angels, they can throw a suicide attack on it with meltas, kill it off, and now only have to contend with the autocannons which can't get past their FNP. Alternately, when you face eldar they can suicide trade a fire dragon unit for your one squadron of hydras. Mech eldar doesn't really care too much about that executioner sitting there now, as their skimmers are free to kite around with impunity. By including both weapon types on a russ, and then just taking that in multiples, I have more fire splitting options and i am less succeptable to someone taking my one tool away before i can use it. its still really early, but i love these things so far.

its been so long since i fielded a russ, that I had forgotten how nice that armor is from long range. Watching lascannons roll 3s and 4s to hit the front armor constantly, numbers that would have at very least shaken or stunned my hydras and manticores, patter off my front armor, and when my opponents worked to expose side armor and were looking at a mighty 13 even then, it was pretty cool.

There are plenty of russes i would call sub-par, and I am not a delusional MBT junky, but there might be a config that works in the context of your army, that doesn't sacrifice that much firepower to get that intimidating AV value.

Now I'm off to line these tanks up against my friends 18 long fang army.... muhahahaha