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Apparently, the Lamenters are now a designated BA successor chapter in the latest codex. Previously, it had been suggested somewhere that they were BA successors, and also that they have somehow gotten over the Red Thirst and Black Rage (Quite how a Cursed Founding chapter managed that, I do not know, but never mind)...

Anyway, firstly from a fluff perspective, how much are they mentioned? Is it purely a painting guide and a single paragraph, or is there anything substantive about them in there? If there is meaningful fulff, I'll have to buy so as not to contradict anything.

Secondly, I don't want an assault army, as such. The Lamenters are, in my own mind's eye a Codex chapter. (Well, so are the Blood Angels, theoretically, but everyone knows they aren't really.) I want to play them as immediately post-penitent crusade against the Tyranids, following the Badab War, using a counts-as Pedro Kantor Chapter Master. I see there as being very few marines left, as there was no recruitment during the crusade, so most of their number are either veterans or very raw scouts, only just started fighting. I suppose that they could have overcome the Red Thirst and Black Rage, so I don't have to actually buy any Death Company rules, and have the 1 in 6 chance of fearless/ferocious charge represent the mentality that they built up during the penitent crusade, but...

Ah hell, I'm just going to have to buy the BA Codex and decide for myself aren't I?

Nevertheless, any suggestions gratefully received. (And yes, feel free to refer to them as emo-marines. I suppose I could even have a Death Company, paint them black and call them the Emo-Company.)

I think you are going to have to buy the BA Codex. If only to make sure you don't miss out on something you REALLY want in your army cause the SM Codex doesn't allow it.

Part of the Lamenters make-up could be that they ALL fell to the Rage and Red Thirst, but were able to overcome it together. So they could all be Death Company type marines and they're rebuilt from that core company.

Besides, they haven't got long to survive. The Lamenters were wiped out weren't they?

MOST of the Lamenters were wiped out by the Tyranids.

Maybe.

An unknown number survive.

I haven't picked up the new BA Codex yet, but, wasn't there rumored to be a Special Character that removed the rage/furious charge thing in exchange for, maybe, stubborn or something else?

I'm guessing he didn't actually make it in then?

Since the Lamanters have "erased" the Geneseed Flaws, I would say Nilla is the best match for them.

Lamenters are mentioned as having made an unfortunate alliance with the Astral Claws (now Red Corsairs!) and of course the claim that they have overcome the red thirst.

There is nothing to stop you making a Lamenters army from either the Vanilla list or the Blood Angels Codex. Aside from a few superficial differences (red thirst vs combat tactics, no land speeder storm or thunderfire cannon, different transport capacities) the books are quite similar in terms of available troop types.

Also having a Lamenters force means you can take advantage of a very close combat inspired army. Most armies don't like power armoured opponents rushing their lines before they can get a good shooting phase in.

Good luck!

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Lamenters

I have had the lexicanum page bookmarked for a while now, but thanks anyway.

I already had quite a lot of fluff in my own head for these guys anyway, and have used the latest little tidbit from the Codex to finalise a few ideas...

I am going to write an expanded history of the Lameters' recent history, in which yes, the curse has been kind of cured, but only in the youngest marines, so there is a massive rift in the Chapter.

The old-timers, those who survived the Badab Wars and the Penitent Crusade against the Tyranids will be led by "The Old Man", 1st Company Captain in Terminator Armour. He will have been the interim commander during the penitent crusade, as they will have executed the old one prior to setting off and not wanted to appoint a new one until they finished atoning. This part of the chapter will use the Blood Angel Codex, and will include many Terminators and be a largely deep-striking army. They will be quite traditional and determined to atone for their wrongdoings in the past, so I may include Astorath in the list, as they would be sure to be quite angsty and emo.

Another part of the chapter will be led by "The Youngster". A Marine too young to have fought in the Badab Wars, but old enough to have joined the Penitent Crusade. A startling rise through the ranks will have seen him become the Chapter's bright new hope and appointed Chapter Master a few years after the 100 year Penitent Crusade, aged just 125, the youngest Chapter Master in history (?). His own strain on gene-seed also seems to be free of the curse, and using his gene-seed, it became possible to cure most other younger recruits too. Those few who can't be cured mostly join the other faction. Of course, this cure also sadly comes at the cost of the loss of a feeling of connection to Sanguinnius, and he leads the chapter to become more aligned with fully-codex chapters and abandons much of the culture, identity and history or the Blood Angels. Being a 21st Founding Chapter, this story cannot end well...

This splinter group would use the same iconography etc.. as the earlier group, but would use the Vanilla Codex. Their lack of access to Baal Rhinos etc.. would be explained by the need to resupply from generic codex storage depots, and the loss of Baal-Tech during the Badab Wars and Penitent Crusade. The remaining Blood Angel Lamenters jealously guard this Tech for their own use.

Thus, the Lamenters will be doomed in several ways.

1) Infighting betwen two factions
2) Gradually reducing numbers of pro-Blood Angel members.
3) Like I said, these boys are 21st Founding Marines... The splinter group will undoubtedly have something bad happen to them. I just haven't decided what. Yet.