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hi quick question land speeders along with the attack bike that are bought for the ravenwing attack squad have a rule saying they are scoring units . the rule book states specifically only troops can score and vehicles cant score. so my question is can the speeder score?

sorry, my answer was pretty crappy & didn't really help to make it any clearer, so it's gone now...

Yes, they score.

A specific exception to a general rule.

Just like Pedro Cantor makes Sternguard scoring even though they are Elites, RAS makes Ravenwing Land Speeders scoring even though they are vehicles.

they indeed Score FTW!!!

There are 2 special rules about the Ravenwings Attack Squads.
- you can choose them AS Troops (with Sammael as HQ);
- consequently each member of each R.Attack squads can be considered as part of 1 scoring unit.

interesting... normally the outdated specific codex varies from the more modern rulebook in bad ways (like ravenwing repeating the 4th edition exclusion of not turboboost scout moves which is no longer present) but i guess it works for them in this case. score away with your land speeder!

is there a specific line in the DA codex that says they are scoring??? As opposed to Troops?

I believe the rulebook's line about vehicles not being scoring trumps speeders as Troops being scoring, unless there is a line that says so.

somewhere in the rulebook it says specific codex restrictions override the general rulebook and this is backed up by the faq's that support the codex restrictions over less restrictive rulebook passages. the ravenwing speeder scoring rules are in the ravenwing rules shaded box in the unit description (not where the point costs are). frankly, this is only one in the DA book that actually works FOR them instead of against them. their scout ravenwing bikes can't turboboost even though EVERY other scouting fast skimmer or bike can turboboost simply because GW reprinted the 4th edition rule in the codex.

Yes, there is a specific line in the codex that says they are a scoring unit. So while the main rulebook does say that vehicles are non-scoring (even if Troops, say a DeffDredd or BA DC Dread), the codex entry about landspeeders in a Ravenwing Attack Squadron taken as Troops being a scoring unit is more specific and trumps the main rulebook entry in this case.

its under the explanation of combat squads for the ras it says the attack bike and speeder are deployed at the same time but from then on are independant scoring units of 1 model. also another question is do you have to take them as troops i.e with sammael as an hq or do they score even as fast attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also warboss there is a note refering to the 4th edition rule for scouting in the ras section but under the special rules section of the codex it says to see the main rule book so the bikes can turbo boost during the scout move though they must stay 12" away from the enemy

Not all DA speeders are scoring. Only Ravenwing Attack Squad Speeders are scoring, but regular DA speeders are not scoring.

Kharnflakes wrote:its under the explanation of combat squads for the ras it says the attack bike and speeder are deployed at the same time but from then on are independant scoring units of 1 model. also another question is do you have to take them as troops i.e with sammael as an hq or do they score even as fast attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also warboss there is a note refering to the 4th edition rule for scouting in the ras section but under the special rules section of the codex it says to see the main rule book so the bikes can turbo boost during the scout move though they must stay 12" away from the enemy

pg 27, Dark Angel Codex "Ravenwing Bikes and Attack Bikes Scouts: Note that no model may make a turboboost move whilst using the scout special rule"


that seems quite clear to me...

yes now go to the front of the codex where it has the special rules it says to see the brb for scout

sure... go to the BRB and look up scout... it mentions NOTHING about turboboosting AT ALL. so, on the one hand we have a codex that screams "NO!!!!" and a rulebook that completely doesn't comment. as i said above, it's quite clear. none of the codicies tell you what "scouts" actually does so referencing the rulebook means nothing special since EVERY unit that has scout must reference the rulebook to see what it actually does.

the faq for the brb says bikes can turbo boost during the scout move

Kharnflakes wrote:the faq for the brb says bikes can turbo boost during the scout move

And the rules in the DA codex quite specifically say that you cannot.

if it where a rule and not a note refering to a rule in a obsolete book i would agree with you.

Kharnflakes wrote:if it where a rule and not a note refering to a rule in a obsolete book i would agree with you.

Well, then try to demonstrate to a thousand anonymous forum posters the mechanism to distinguish between the 'note' in that case and the 'rule' stating that speeders are separate scoring units. Realistically, they're both references to obsolete rules, and you're going to have a difficult fight to keep one and not the other.

Kharnflakes wrote:if it where a rule and not a note refering to a rule in a obsolete book i would agree with you.

1) It isnt an obsolete book, it is a current codex
2) Their special rule states tehy CANNOT turboboost during scout moves. This is more specific than the rulebook which states Bikes can turboboost.

solkan wrote:

Kharnflakes wrote:if it where a rule and not a note refering to a rule in a obsolete book i would agree with you.

Well, then try to demonstrate to a thousand anonymous forum posters the mechanism to distinguish between the 'note' in that case and the 'rule' stating that speeders are separate scoring units. Realistically, they're both references to obsolete rules, and you're going to have a difficult fight to keep one and not the other.

pg.23 of codex dark angels
Fearless,infiltrate,move through cover,scout all these rules are detailed in the warhammer 40,000 rule book.
pg 27
ravenwing combat squads
ravenwing bike squadrons at full strength may fight either as single unit of six bikes or break down into two three man combat squads

much like combat squads,the squadron's attack bike and land speeder are purchased together with the squadron and then deployed at the same time as the squadrons bikes,but from then on they always operate as completely independant scoring units of one model

consenquently victory points are awarded separately for each of the bikes combat squads for the attack bike and for the land speeder
this is the insert describing how ravenwing combat squads clearly a rule
pg 27
scouts : note that no model may make a turboboost move while using the scout special rule.
this note, it is clearly stated as a note refers to the 4th edition scout rule

1) It isnt an obsolete book, it is a current codex
2) Their special rule states tehy CANNOT turboboost during scout moves. This is more specific than the rulebook which states Bikes can turboboost.

i wasnt saying the codex is obsolete i was refering to the 4th edition rule book which is

and jus so we are all clear this is from the 40k rule book faq
Q. Can bikes Turbo Boost during their Scout
move?
A. Yes they now can, but remember that they
have to remain more than 12” away from the
enemy as they move.

It is still a rule however - the "note" does not "clearly" refer to the 4th ed rulebook..

They have a RULE stating nothing may turboboost, and it is more specific than the rulebook.

Kharnflakes wrote:
pg 27
scouts : note that no model may make a turboboost move while using the scout special rule.
this note, it is clearly stated as a note refers to the 4th edition scout rule

Clearly stated... where, exactly?
It clearly states only that it should be noted that they cannot turboboost while using the scout special rule.

Should we ignore the dozens of places in the BRB where rule statements begin with "note that..." because they're somehow not rules and just "notes"?

Sorry kharnflakes, gotta disagree with you. As a general rule, yes, bikes with Scouts can turboost during their Scouts move. However, this is superceded in the case of DA bikers by the rule in their own codex that they cannot do so. Doesn't matter if it (the 'note') refers to 4th ed or even 3rd ed rules, it still applies in 5th ed.