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Wanting to make my Red Shields into a rounded, decent force (with lots of vehicles) I must turn to dakka to help with a 1000pt force of mech. Vets to set my sights for.
So this is the list so far:

Primaris Psyker- 70

Veteran Squad-190
(sarge. w/ powerfist, shotguns, 2x flamers, heavy flamer, grenadiers in a chimera)

Veteran squad-260
(sergeant Bastonne, 3x plasma gun grenadiers in a chimera)

Veteran squad-170
(Autocannon, flamer(or a grenade launcher), grenadiers in a chimera)

Hellhound tank-130

Leman Russ Vanquisher-170
(w/ hull mounted lascannon)

Total= 1000

To me this feels like itis lacking something...but i can't put my finger on it...

Help is appreciated

Imp. Monkey

If you dropped the grenadiers you could get another vet squad... you won't really need carapace in the chimeras.

I'd love to face off against this list with my 6 dreadnought list. You have very little real antitank and your list isn't really playing to the strengths of the guard at this points level. If you wanted the same feel how does a list like this one look?

HQ
CCS (Autocannon, 3x Plasmaguns), Chimera (HB, Heavy Stubber) - 170

Troops
PCS (4x Meltas), Chimera (HF) - 125
-Platoon 1, Chimera (HF) - 105
-Platoon 1, Chimera (HF) - 105
PCS (4x Meltas), Chimera (HF) - 125
-Platoon 1, Chimera (HF) - 105
-Platoon 1, Chimera (HF) - 105

Heavy Support
Manticore - 160

Though I know you said you wanted vets, you could use the same models and call them a platoon for now and add back in meltas and the like as you move to higher point games.

Taking out grenadiers and adding another squad would leave them without a ride however. And It would kinda ruin the mech. idea...

I wasn't sure wether they needed carapace in there, I just figured they would need it to weather the heavy fire coming their way after they've disembarked. I could take out bastonne also, that would free up some points.

Yeah, drop Bast and all 4+ saves, which frees up 150p. If you swap the HFlamer for another flamer (IMO 20p is too much, when you can get them free on the Chims) to get up to 165p.

Use this to take a triple melta squad, and to add 2 GL to the AC squad.
The list should look like this:

Primaris Psyker - 70
Veteran Squad - Powerfist, 3x Flamer, 7x Shotgun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 145
Veteran Squad - 3x Plasma Gun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 170
Veteran Squad - 3x Grenade Launcher, AutoCannon, Chimera (Hull HB) - 150
Veteran Squad - 3x Melta Gun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 155
Hellhound - Hull HB - 130
Leman Russ Vanquisher - Hull LC - 170

Black Antelope wrote:Yeah, drop Bast and all 4+ saves, which frees up 150p. If you swap the HFlamer for another flamer (IMO 20p is too much, when you can get them free on the Chims) to get up to 165p.

Use this to take a triple melta squad, and to add 2 GL to the AC squad.
The list should look like this:

Primaris Psyker - 70
Veteran Squad - Powerfist, 3x Flamer, 7x Shotgun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 145
Veteran Squad - 3x Plasma Gun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 170
Veteran Squad - 3x Grenade Launcher, AutoCannon, Chimera (Hull HB) - 150
Veteran Squad - 3x Melta Gun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 155
Hellhound - Hull HB - 130
Leman Russ Vanquisher - Hull LC - 170

That list lacks anti-vehicle punch. I'd drop the Hellhound and the Russ for a pair of Vendettas and use the 40 points saved change the Primaris Psyker into a useful CCS team.

If I played the current list I'd be facing 1 real threat that I could deal with at range. With my six dreadnought list I'd use three 2x TL AC dreads to ensure that the melta chimera was finished off, then use my scouts ML's to try and crack or otherwise keep another from firing upon me. Now they're a threat I can just ignore for the rest of the game and take out as I see fit. The Vanquisher has about a 65% chance of damaging a dread out of cover per turn and if I can stick to cover it may kill one dread the entire game. While it's true that you could stun lock me with Multi-lasers on Chimeras I do have the firepower to do the same to your Chimeras and I win every assault with ease.

Black Antelope and Norade are both on the right track. I'll give some advice phrased as changes to your list.

Drop all the grenadiers upgrades, the powerfist, and bastonne from the veteran squads. These are all overpriced and not suited to the way you use mechanised units.

All your chimeras should have HFs on the front hull. So, you don't need any flamers in your squads. Take 3xmelta/plasma guns in each squad - an autocannon as well if you feel like it.

Hellhound is fine, a friend of mine finds they work really well with a multimelta on the front, gives them a good chance against any vehicle while maintaining range.

Vanquisher is a bit pants - its only one BS3 shot, and it's not AP1. I would replace this with a manticore, demolisher or a pair of hydras. These units are all better at killing armour at range (obviously hydras can't kill heavy tanks, but meltaguns take care of those).

Primaris Psyker, I've never seen used. I'd take a CCS with guns, but it's your call.

Example list:

CCS, 4 plasmaguns, chimera: 165

Vet squad, 3 meltas, chimera: 155

Vet squad, 3 meltas, chimera: 155

Vet squad, 3 meltas, chimera: 155

Hellhound w/multimelta: 145

Manticore: 160

Total: That's 935, you've still got room for some other upgrades, or a couple sentinels or something. Or marbo maybe?

Sorry if that's really domineering advice, or not what you're looking for. But right now there's a lot of fat and poor weapon chioices in your list.

Good luck with the army!

Norade wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:Yeah, drop Bast and all 4+ saves, which frees up 150p. If you swap the HFlamer for another flamer (IMO 20p is too much, when you can get them free on the Chims) to get up to 165p.

Use this to take a triple melta squad, and to add 2 GL to the AC squad.
The list should look like this:

Primaris Psyker - 70
Veteran Squad - Powerfist, 3x Flamer, 7x Shotgun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 145
Veteran Squad - 3x Plasma Gun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 170
Veteran Squad - 3x Grenade Launcher, AutoCannon, Chimera (Hull HB) - 150
Veteran Squad - 3x Melta Gun, Chimera (Hull HF) - 155
Hellhound - Hull HB - 130
Leman Russ Vanquisher - Hull LC - 170

That list lacks anti-vehicle punch. I'd drop the Hellhound and the Russ for a pair of Vendettas and use the 40 points saved change the Primaris Psyker into a useful CCS team.

If I played the current list I'd be facing 1 real threat that I could deal with at range. With my six dreadnought list I'd use three 2x TL AC dreads to ensure that the melta chimera was finished off, then use my scouts ML's to try and crack or otherwise keep another from firing upon me. Now they're a threat I can just ignore for the rest of the game and take out as I see fit. The Vanquisher has about a 65% chance of damaging a dread out of cover per turn and if I can stick to cover it may kill one dread the entire game. While it's true that you could stun lock me with Multi-lasers on Chimeras I do have the firepower to do the same to your Chimeras and I win every assault with ease.

I was trying to work with his current list, no just write a new one.
Really, no one can have "enough" anti-tank to fight 6 dreads in 1K, unless they tailer for it. Its an allcomers list (I assume), so I feel it has enough AT to get by:
1 S9 2D6
1 S9
3 S8 2D6
8 S7
15 S6
@ optimum is not that bad.
Also, remeber that there are 40 krak grenades in there (won't help vs dreads, but will smash up Preds etc)

This stuff is really helpful.
@ Black Antelope- yeh, this is an all-round list so It felt pretty decent.

The vanquisher will become better at tank killing with the Pask upgrade wich adds another 1 to the AP roll.

I can also see how Bastonne is not ideal at this points level, he would be better for a 1500 pt batle.

The heavy flamer can be dropped, a flamer would work fine there if supported by the chimera.

melta vets are good at the start maybe for their first kill but they then get targeted and their ride is taken out and they can't get near enough. A couple of Lascannon totting scout sentinels could work well tho, If they outflank and come into the rear/side armour of some tanks.
The main concern is there are not enough support tanks.... I am yet to play a proper game with some mech vets tho... :*(

Imp. Monkey

Imperial Monkey wrote:This stuff is really helpful.
@ Black Antelope- yeh, this is an all-round list so It felt pretty decent.

The vanquisher will become better at tank killing with the Pask upgrade wich adds another 1 to the AP roll.

I can also see how Bastonne is not ideal at this points level, he would be better for a 1500 pt batle.

The heavy flamer can be dropped, a flamer would work fine there if supported by the chimera.

melta vets are good at the start maybe for their first kill but they then get targeted and their ride is taken out and they can't get near enough. A couple of Lascannon totting scout sentinels could work well tho, If they outflank and come into the rear/side armour of some tanks.
The main concern is there are not enough support tanks.... I am yet to play a proper game with some mech vets tho... :*(

Imp. Monkey

If you don't want Melta Vets, take a Vendetta, then add an AC to the plasma squad, and put the HF back into the flame squad.

Well in all honesty I'm asking adivce from people who have played with mech. vets, since i haven't.

Would scout seninels w/ lascannons and hunterkillers be worthwhile??

Are devil dogs worth taking or are they only really good in cityfights??

And the final question is wether commisairs are goood in these squads??

cheers all
Imp. Monkey

Here is the 1000 pts I am currently running (All Chimeras have Multi-laser and heavy flamer). The idea here is to have so many targets on the table that it really does not matter what they shoot at, basically seven Chimeras. The only situational guy is the Officer of the Fleet. You could give the vets demo or something instead:

CCS w/ 3x Melta, Flamer, Officer of the Fleet, Chimera 170

PCS w/ 3x Melta, Flamer, Chimera 120
Infantry Squad w/ Lascannon, Chimera 125
Infantry Squad w/ Lascannon, Chimera 125
Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3x AC 75
Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3x AC 75

Veterans w/ 3x Melta, Chimera 155

Hydra Flak Cannon w/ Heavy Bolter 75
Hydra Flak Cannon w/ Heavy Bolter 75

Total 995


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and OP, to answer your questions:

Would scout seninels w/ lascannons and hunterkillers be worthwhile??
Far too expensive for a very fragile way to bring a single lascannon to the table. Also, HKs are good, but not at 1000 points. All that being said, they can do funny things with a camo net if you get them into cover.

Are devil dogs worth taking or are they only really good in cityfights??
A devil dog is a 120 point multi-melta, basically. With your original list, I know I only have to kill two vehicles to stop your army from hurting me completely.

And the final question is wether commisairs are goood in these squads??
Commisars really work best with combined infantry squads to slow the opponent down completely, I really don't think that they fit in with vets (who will tend to die very quickly in combat). Also, not really a fit in a mech list as it just encourages you to dismount (don't, unless you are giving meltas the order to 'Bring It Down').

My bad, I really meant bane wolf, not devil dog :*(

Thanks for the help tho.

Well, the chem cannon means I only would have to kill the vanquisher to stop your army. I think you need to seriously look into making your units able to take on multiple targets.

Mech-ing up is good, but others will be doing it also.

Imperial Monkey wrote:Well in all honesty I'm asking adivce from people who have played with mech. vets, since i haven't.

Would scout seninels w/ lascannons and hunterkillers be worthwhile??

Are devil dogs worth taking or are they only really good in cityfights??

And the final question is wether commisairs are goood in these squads??

cheers all
Imp. Monkey

Sentinels - Most people don't like them. I have truck loads, but thats just because I like the models, but I rarly run more than 1 squad.
IMO MLaser/AC outflanking is the only decent build. They come on, shoot up rear/side armour, or assault rearline forces (lootas etc). Agaist AV10, MLaser are just (microscopicly) better, and there better vs anything under T6, or with any save other than 4+. AC is better for T6+ and AV11+.
HKM could be taken on AC sentinals if you have lots of points kicking around, for an Alpha strike.

LC/Missile/MM are too expensive for their one shot, and HF limits you to anti-horde (MLaser/AC Sentinals usefulness is there versitility) and is too expensive.
Armoured Sents are too expenisive, and you lose the one redeming feature of Sentinals under 5th Ed C:IG, which is the Outflank move.


Banewolf - whether you run a Wolf or a Hound depends on your metagame and personal prefence IMO. Hounds are death incarnate for anything 4+ and under (Its just cruel - yep, I'm within 12"+8" of that Scout Squad. Anything but a 1. You have Camo and Reinforced Ruins? Too bad.) and arn't too shabby vs 3+. Wolves hammer 3+ and 2+ (They waste Termies), but that lack of range means they will only get one shot, and vs anything 4+ or worse, its just wasted potentail.

Personly, I love the Hound, and never leave home without one.


Commies are only good in 30-50 man blob platoons. Either to keep your 30 man "Lascannons and wanna-be Lascannons" turtle from running, or to make your 40 man "Assaulting Guard? WTF?" blobs stubborn, and to give them more PWs.
In larger points levels (1500+) consider taking a 30 blob (either 3xLC or 3xAC+GL) to turtle up on a home objective. 30 T3 5+/4+cover Ld9 Stubborn models are hard to shift, and only cost 230 for the AC+GL version (245 for LC).
The PCS will then get either 4xGL+Chim (ML,HB) to lay down fire, 4xFlamer+Chim (ML,HF) for counter assault or 4xMelta+Chim (ML,HF) for anti-tank.

If you want assaulty platoon blobs, you need to build your army around it, and its better to run all footslogging with artillery and outflanking troops at that point.



My 1k list is:

CCS - 3 Melta, Chim (Hull HF)
Marbo
Vets - 3 Plasma (Hull HF)
Vets - 2 Plasma, AC (Hull HB)
Hellhound (Hull HB)
LRBT (Hull HB)
Manticore (Hull HB)

Okay, I am kinda listing toward that list, perhaps with something other than the manticore and marbo, I'll look back at the codex see what else is there...perhaps some rough riders, or another LRBT/hell hound variant.

If you do drop the Manticore, you need to take some other anti-tank unit, as its the only good souce of long range AT in the army.

Vets and LRBT can kill AV10-12 well enough, but AV13 and above you only really have 3 ways of killing it that cut it:
S10 - Manticore, Medusa w/BBS (LRD is too short range to be reliable. You need something that can slug it out with Railheads, LC/AC preds etc, as Chimera based meltas will never make it there before the damage has been done.)
LC Spam - Vendetta. Blobs can work, but you really need a higher points level. HWT are too fragile.
Melta - self explanitry. Best souces - Vets/CCS/PCS in Chimeras/Valks/Vendetta. Valks are probably better than Vendetta for dedicated Melta-taxis, as they can move 12" and shoot eveything, were as the Vendetta is limited to 6", as you don't want to waste those lovely lascannons.
Other souces to consider - DSing Storm Troopers, 5 man outflanking Rough Riders, Al Raihen SWS - but all these are pretty ineffincent.


Yeah, as Fearspect says, the lower the points level, the more multi-purpous IG needs to be. While at, say, 2500 'ard Boyz, you might be justified in flinging around 155p suiside squads (triple melta vets in chim), at 1000p?
You need to ensure you never overreach your units, as every one you lose is 1/6 or so of your army.

Say we have 4 target types: Light Inf (GEQ), Heavy Inf (MEQ), Light Tanks (AV11), Heavy Tanks (AV14)
CCS - AV14/MEQ at short range
Marbo - GEQ/MEQ/AV11 at short range, GEQ/non-assault-dedicated MEQ in assault (not that he'll ever get there )
Vets - MEQ at short range, AV11 at longer ranges
ML/HB Chim - GEQ/AV11 at long range
ML/HF Chim - GEQ/AV11 at long range, GEQ at short range
Hellhound - GEQ at short range (but the Hull HB gives it the abiltiy to fight at long range, as when flaming you will always move it 12" to stave off CC damage, so the HHF is redudent
LRBT - GEQ/MEQ/AV11 at long range from the cannon, GEQ at long range from the HB (remember you dont have to fire it to avoid wound allocation problems on MEQs)
Manticore - AV11/AV14/GEQ at long range.

Every unit can engage multiple unit types


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you definatly don't want artillery, then you want a Devildog (Hull MM) or Vendetta (no upgrades), and maybe a unit of RR (8+MB if you pick the DD, 9 if you pick the Vendetta