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Advice always appreciated. By the way, I'm new here to dakka! Hello, everyone.

HQ -- Shas'el Fireknife Build w/ Multi-Tracker -- 97

Elites -- Stealth Suits all Burst Cannons -- 90

Troops -- 12 Fire Warriors, Devilfish -- 200
Troops -- 12 Fire Warriors -- 120
Troops -- 12 Fire Warriors -- 120
Troops -- 13 Kroot -- 91

Fast Attack -- Piranha w/ Disruption Pods and Targeting Array -- 70
Fast Attack -- Piranha w/ Disruption Pods and Targeting Array -- 70
Fast Attack -- 7 Gun Drones -- 84

Heavy Support -- Broadside w/ TL Railgun and TL SMS -- 70
Heavy Support -- Broadside w/ TL Railgun and TL SMS -- 70
Heavy Support -- Hammerhead Gunship w/ Railgun and TL Burst Cannons and Disruption Pods -- 155

TOTAL -- 1237

I would drop a few fire warriors from your squads and take 6 PF (using their devilfish as the DF you already have for your FW).

Since that eats up one of your FA slots, I'd drop at least the one Piranha, and probably the stealth suits to grab a unit of 2 more FK's. Your mobile MEQ killing is awful skimpy as is.

Cohocat wrote:Broadside w/ TL Railgun and TL SMS
Heavy Support -- Broadside w/ TL Railgun and TL SMS --

One:
Posting points costs is unnecessary and against posting rules.

Two:
Double check that Broadside entry. The Railgun is TwinLinked, while the SMS is not. Plus, what third 'hard point' are you going with? A.s.s.? MultiTracker? Target Array? (I'd recommend them in that order).

Cohocat wrote:Hammerhead Gunship w/ Railgun and TL Burst Cannons and Disruption Pods

Add MultiTracker so it'll move and shoot like a Fast Vehicle, and Target Lock so the BCs will hose infantry and the RG will clobber a tank. And, the Burst Cannons are not TwinLinked. They are two separate guns, each firing 3 dice.

TwinLinks in Tau:
Crisis Suits, if you take the same gun twice. So, a Crisis Suit with 2 FusionBs would fire once, with a reroll for a miss.
Gun Drone carbines.
The Broadside's Railgun.

That's it. No wep on any HammerHead nor Skyray is TwinLinked. And SMS never is, even though it is modeled as two pods of missile lookin' things, it is *one* wep system, using 4 dice.

Brothererekose wrote:

Cohocat wrote:
Double check that Broadside entry. The Railgun is TwinLinked, while the SMS is not.

With all due respect, the SMS on Broadside is twinlinked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Agree with Jokorey. Everything about Tau is about firepower; and to check on a pain-in-the-neck of average BS3 pathfinder is the backbone of any shooty Tau army in the field. Not to mention every other bonus; just go back and check markerlight in the codex

Brothererekose wrote:
Double check that Broadside entry. The Railgun is TwinLinked, while the SMS is not.

ryanstartalker wrote:With all due respect, the SMS on Broadside is twinlinked.

In the Codex:TE, the b-side entry says "b-sides are equipped with a Twin Linked Railgun and a SMS." That isn't TL RG and TL SMS.

For 4 years, I, and everyone I have every played, the SMS is not. Where in the codex does it say that SMS is TL?

Brothererekose wrote:In the Codex:TE, the b-side entry says "b-sides are equipped with a Twin Linked Railgun and a SMS." That isn't TL RG and TL SMS.

For 4 years, I, and everyone I have every played, the SMS is not. Where in the codex does it say that SMS is TL?

First, what it says is "... Railgun and the SMS", not "a", which doesn't matter anyway originally but makes a great different in the way you put it.

Second, if not, then why GW bother to put a pair of SMS metal parts in the box? Why don't Tau players just take one arm as SMS on XV88 and attach some other suit weapon system on the other arm?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and one more thing. Kroots are not as tough as they look; actually, they suck if they are not a literal "swarm", and I assure you 13 Kroots is definitely not "swarm" size. Regardless you don't even have a shaper attaching to them, which makes the whole situation worse.
My suggestion would be drop the Kroots altogether whenever there's no forest terrain on the table; Squeeze the points out from Gun Drones and drop 1 squad of FW and use these points to field Pathfinders and one more Devilfish for the remaining FW squad. Firepower precision and mobility keep Tau gunline alive and active, creed.

Posting points costs is unnecessary and against posting rules.

Why?

And thanks for the advice, guys!

Cohocat wrote:

Posting points costs is unnecessary and against posting rules.

Why?

And thanks for the advice, guys!

Good question. I wanna ask too.

First you can put points values for units but not for each line as GW will sue Dakka for handing out their intellectual property.

Secondly SMS aren't and can't be taken twin-linked. the railgun is twin linked the SMS isn't and isn't on any option (notice how you have 2 pods on the vehicle version aswell). You can't add a further weapon you can replace 1 SMS system with 1 twin-linked plasma rifle though.

However as to the army:

I don't want to sound harsh but this is not a remotely competitive build and will get tabled by a fast army in 2 turns tops. Heck with 500 points of scouts I could table you in 2 turns if I went first...

Your problems are:

No crisis suits these do basically all the heavy lifting of the Tau army without them you simply won't have enough fire power to stop the enemy.

Stealthsuits look cool but perform poorly and should only be considered for fun play or as an alternative to pathfinders in larger battles. Which means you give each one a ML drone and the team leader a ML this gives you mobile MLs that the enemy can't target from far away.

No markerlights which are the cornerstone of the Tau army means what meagre fire power you do have won't even be accurate.

Yor FWs need rides without exception. You can give them a pathfinders ride to reduce costs but they all need devilfish. Otherwise they are just dead to turn 1 assaults.

13 Kroot won't do anything for you. Not big enough to castle behind, not small enough to hitch a ride (not that you have any spare rides going) and nowhere near big enough to cause the enemy problems. I'd normally take a few with hounds if going swarm, never ever take the Shaper though 4 times the cost for fewer attacks, fewer wounds and the "option" to make them even more expensive for a save throw that almost no weapon will allow them to take...

A single broadside is a waste of time you need them in units of at least 2. Yours are also illegal as they don't have the third hardpoint filled.

1 Hammerhead is also pointless it will be targeted and destroyed turn 1 every time. You need them in pairs for duel threat and redundancy.

Posting point costs may violate GW IP, and should be avoided.

SMS are not TL. GW is just bad with writing clear rules, and everything else is just form>function.

Okay that makes sense. Looks like I am gonna edit all my points showed in the SW list...

So the SMS is my mistake then... Sorry guys in China I played with you two years with SMS twin-linked

So Fling does that mean I am gonna tear one SMS arm off each of my 3 Broadsides when I go back and install other shooty stuff on them? I actually like this deal more, if it is as you said...

So Fling does that mean I am gonna tear one SMS arm off each of my 3 Broadsides when I go back and install other shooty stuff on them? I actually like this deal more, if it is as you said...

No both pods constitutes 1 SMS system, notice there is no option to change the SMS for anything other than 1 twinlinked plasma rifle. Just like you can't take an SMS on your hammerhead and still take 1 gun drone or 1 burstcannon as like with the broadsides both pods constitute 1 weapon.

Okay... Understood. I'll think about it...

ryanstartalker wrote:First, what it says is "... Railgun and the SMS", not "a", which doesn't matter anyway originally but makes a great different in the way you put it.

"which doesn't matter anyway originally" ?

Um, the "original text", being the codex, is the final thing that matters.

ryanstartalker wrote:Second, if not, then why GW bother to put a pair of SMS metal parts in the box? Why don't Tau players just take one arm as SMS on XV88 and attach some other suit weapon system on the other arm?

Using how the model is set up is not a valid argument. The models are made to look 'cool' and such. And asking Why does GW do this or that are not valid arguments to counter a point.

Much like:

Bob: My point is, guns are not dangerous.

Fran: Yes, they are. Why else would there be safeties on them?

Bringing up a question about the safety mechanism isn't a counter-argument.

Back to 40k: Citing the text in the book is the best way to counter/establish your point.
------------------------------------------------
As for the modeling? I like several of poster fling's reasons: not taking one off to put on another weapon and so forth.

We could take this to the You Make Da Call ....

@Brothererekose:
Oh, but what I mean by the sentence is that your quote doesn't match with the "original text". Bla. Different between "a" and "the".
And I know I am wrong here, so anyway. That's why I said the following:

Sorry guys in China I played with you two years with SMS twin-linked

ryanstartalker wrote:@Brothererekose:
Oh, but what I mean by the sentence is that your quote doesn't match with the "original text". Bla. Different between "a" and "the".

I'm an English teacher, so I can tell you there isn't a whole lot of difference between the articles "the" and "a". One is specific and the other is non-specific. Lending nothing to TL or not ....

ryanstartalker wrote:And I know I am wrong here, so anyway. That's why I said the following:

Sorry guys in China I played with you two years with SMS twin-linked

. Yes. Honorably acknowledged.
*bows*

You know I actually felt a little guilty right now... Imagine TL SMS for two years... Hopefully they would want to beat me up when they find out
Thanks for the grammar lesson! I need it.

A single broadside is a waste of time you need them in units of at least 2. Yours are also illegal as they don't have the third hardpoint filled.

The broadsides are in a pair, sorry to cause any confusion there. Guess I'll put MT 's on them then if they're illegal, should have done that in the first place though.

Multi Trackers aren't an excellent choice on them.. there are many better choices.

It has been deduced by higher minds that with a multi-tracker, you can only fire two weapon systems, not two twin linked weapon systems. So, you would lose you twin linking...

Many people get A.S.S.

EDIT - There is nothing wrong with your current points listed. The real problem is having the individual cost of each piece of equipment listed, that would be bad. Its fine to list the unit cost.

The Bringer wrote:It has been deduced by higher minds that with a multi-tracker, you can only fire two weapon systems, not two twin linked weapon systems. So, you would lose you twin linking...

Not true.

Well, first, no suit can come with 2 TL systems. That'd be 4 hard points.

Second, check the TL Batsuit wep systems paragraph on page 25 of the Codex:TE. Each TL-wep system, is *one* system. I didn't think so for a long time, but when TonkaTruckDriver and eiglepulper of ATT pointed it out ... "Counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type)." Bold emphasis mine.

Thus you can have a Team Leader or vre with a hwMT, shoot a TL-MP and a PR in the same turn.

Sorry, correction, the multi-tracker will never apply to any twin-linked system, whether there are two or just one is a twin linked system. And broadsides can get TL plasma rifles with a twin linked railgun.

About the actual discussion, it has been discussed thoroughly and the conclusion was as I stated. I can't give you a link though, sorry.

EDIT - some corrections

The Bringer wrote:And broadsides can get TL plasma rifles with a twin linked railgun.

Yeah, you're right on that; I was wrong. That realization clicked in waiting in line for gas at Costco.

Makes me scratch my head wondering how that happened with the writers, given 3 hard points for every other case.

Um... Indeed a standing-out curious case about arranging hard points... "Specifically-stated in the codex"... Blah...

Makes me scratch my head wondering how that happened with the writers, given 3 hard points for every other case.

It is because Broadsides are bigger they can carry a single TL system as a single hard point, it is why they are allowed to take the SMS at all instead of a single weapon.

Either way mtulitrakers are a poor choice on Broadsides ASS is basically a requisite incase you get DoW deployment (or as I like to call it "Dawn of Tau are screwed")

Here is, hopefully, a better list I came up with last night. I'm on a real tight budget so I couldn't do all the things you guys suggested.

HQ: Shas'el Fireknife, Multi-Tracker, Drone Controller +2 Gun Drones
Bodyguards: Crisis Suit TL Fusion Blaster, Multi-Tracker, (is that 2 or 3 hard points?)
Crisis Suit TL Burst Cannon, Multi-Tracker

Troops: 12 Firewarriors, Devilfish
12 Firewarriors
12 Firewarriors
13 Kroot (I know, I know, you suggested they be dropped, but I'm filling up points here)

Fast Attack: 2 Piranha, both with Disruption Pods
3 Gun Drones (also filling up points, but still SORTA good, took down 3 cron warriors with them, )

Heavy Support: 2 Broadsides both with Multi-Trackers
Hammerhead with Railgun and Burst Cannons and Multi-Tracker, Disruption Pods

TOTAL: 1242

Well, for one, you don't need to actually use a multi-tracker for a twin-linked weapon system... also decided on this thread I can't find. (can someone post a link?)

Besides that, your suits are 3 hardpoints. Your hammerhead is good, but I would put on a target lock so your burst cannons can shred little things while your railgun kills big things.

You can't get 3 gun drones in one unit, the min. is 4.

Never just "fill up points"

If you got extra points, put them into more battlesuits. Also, I'd never suggest getting bodyguards. They are more expensive than your average suit, and they give the unit an extra KP.

Only take body guards so you can give them all TAs and hardwire a multitraker so you've got a BS4 team. Given your lack of markerlights this is actually a pretty good idea.

Make all your suits armed for the same job if they are forming a unit. 1 suit won't have enough firepower to do the job on it's own and the other 2 suits would be wasting their firepower each turn.

Up the multitrakers to ASS on the broadsides. Dump the illgeal unit of 3 gun drones to get better equipement on your crisis suits.

Do any of your FW models have carbines? If so you can pull of the shoulder pad and/or backpack and presto you have pathfinders. Markerlights really ar the corner stone of the Tau army.

Why BPs on both your Piranhas? If used individually they give up 4 KPs which is a bad idea and used together the 2nd DP is totally redundant (I'd argue that in most cases both DPs are redundant anyway).

Only ever put carbines oo a unit with a D-fish.

Its dangerous when enemies get that close.

EDIT - Typo

I'd never use carbines full stop, Rulserifles are just better in basically everyway. But if he had the models (as he seems to be altering his list along the lines of limited models) they make a great substitue for pathfinders . That is all I was saying.

Big FW squads are FAIL.

You need killing 2 firewarriors to force a 6 men squad to have morale test.

And you need to kill 3 for a 12 men squad.

Please tell me that it is really more difficult for killing 3 than killing 2.


Kroot(hound)s are much more better.