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OK, so after having my IG list (hopefully my new army) eaten for breakfast by Dashofpepper, he and his buddies helped me out alot, so I made up a new list. Its not a total powergaming list, as I do place personal fluff as important. I love the idea of massed infantry (horde ork is my other personal favorite, trying to decide which one I wanna play) I don't like flamers, on the ground that you need to be in assaulting range to use them (hellhounds don't count towards this). The point of the army is simply to grind everything down to a pulp, and then run for the objectives. It should do great in KP missions though. Just 2 questions about this gak.


Edit: removed origional list for prides sake, I had a durr moment when writing it. Look down for updated one

I expect a heavy amount of criticism, and I welcome most of it, I do need help

One Autocannon per squad.

You also have invested too many points in marginal upgrades (stubbers, carapace) instead of in actual content.

Oh, and no way to destroy AV 13+ (even 12 is a struggle).

Do you even own a codex?

Yeah, i do, just had an extremely dumb moment when making this list. gimmie a bit to revise it and ill put a new one up


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IG 2000

HQ
Company Command Squad- x3 plasmaguns, Chimera (150)

TROOPS
Platoon Command Squad- Commander, Autocannon, x2 plasmagun, Chimera (125)
Squad A- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)
Squad B- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)
Squad C- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)
Squad D- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)
Squad E- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)

Veteran Squad A- Sgt, x3 plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (160)
Veteran Squad B- Sgt, x3 plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (160)
Veteran Squad C- Sgt, x2 plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (145)

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ Squad- Leman Russ Battle Tank, x2 Vanquisher (460)

Hydra Battery- 2 Hydras (150)

HQ-150
Troops-1240
Heavy Support- 610

Total-2000

Removed the autocannons, and the carapace from the vet squads, took a Hydra out, and all the stubbers from the vehicles, took a plasma from the CCS. Added a LR battle tank and 2 Vanquishers. Now go...



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I'm pondering taking out a squad of vets and adding a squad of stormtroopers so I get something that can rapidly stand up to MEQs. Taken with Airborne Assault, they re-roll their deepstrike dice, so I can land then within rapid-fire of a MEQ squad and hit them with AP 3 weapons for 160 points. Just something I'm tossing around

Take the battle tank out of the squadron. ur vanquishers will shoot tough veichles and ur wasting a battlecannon beta used against troops.

Yeah, 3 tanks in a squad is a bad idea. Especially when they will target different type of units. Switch some of all that plasma for melta weapons.

Why is the LRBT squadroned with 2 vanquishers? Surely a bad idea. Either seperate them by type, or better yet change the vanquishers for enclosed medusas. Far, far better IMO.

If you swap the vanquishers for medusas and/or swap the LRBT (in its own slot) for a manticore, you'd have some high-strength firepower in the mix. Currently the list lacks anything except the one bloated tank squadron that has anything >S8.

You also need some meltaguns. I know this is the broken record of the internet by now, but hey, a list with no meltaguns is a list that will lose. Either make some of the veterans or CCS melta-squads, or scrap squads and put in stormtroopers (squad of 5, 2 meltaguns)

Hope that helps. I agree that plasma/AC combination is excellent, but you do need some templates/S10/melta in the mix to compete.

Vanquishers are really bad. If you want long range reliable anti-heavy tank, you have two choices: Medusa with BBS and Manticore.

I don't really see the "leafblower" in your list - you need more artillery and vendettas, now, you only have chimera-spam.

On another note - this is a boring list to play and to play against. I've played against a list similar to this in a tournament (more optimized though), and although it won the tournament, the guy got no praise, as it does not rely on any skill, just insane amounts of tanks, and every opponent thought that list was the most boring to play against. It is also extremly expensive, so little fun + expensive = not an awesome idea IMO. If you already own most of the chimeras and men, go ahead and try it out, but if it means that you have to buy 10 chimeras to do this list, then don't - Especially if this is to try to outlist Dashofpepper - from what I've gathered, he is also a very good player. IMO, you should rather try to make a more interesting list (more variety) and learn a lot from playing against a much better opponent than yourself.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:I'm pondering taking out a squad of vets and adding a squad of stormtroopers so I get something that can rapidly stand up to MEQs. Taken with Airborne Assault, they re-roll their deepstrike dice, so I can land then within rapid-fire of a MEQ squad and hit them with AP 3 weapons for 160 points. Just something I'm tossing around

Stuff like this + no melta in your list + the leman russ squadron tells me that at the moment, you will not beat DoP or any good player regardless of your list. Play more, test of different units and see which ones work for you and learn from your opponents (ask them to give you pointers after the game etc)

Exactly what Illumni said. Also, any leafblower list would not be complete without the Inq with two mystics for Deep Strike defence and anti psy.
I think it needs to be said once again, the leafblower list is extremly boring both to play and play against.

For the heavy choices, I have found that 2 Manticores and 1 Colossus works well. Lots of bang for the buck.

The vet squads are a good to arm with meltas for more anti-tank.

The PCS I have been arming with 4 flamers, just in case someone gets close. Drop pod Marines that need to make 30 saves, tend to go away.

just play what you want to.

id drop the autocannons and replace the plasmas in the vet squads for meltas so they can shoot while moblie, and as mentioned meltas are needed.

id drop a vanquisher and the give the remaining one pask with a lascannon. i think this would be more effective than two standard vanquishers for 85 less points. B4 S9 roll 2 dice and S10 lascannon as opposed to 2 B3 S8 roll 2 dice shots and heavy bolters. also pask also grants flexibility against MC.

40 pt from plasma to melta, 30 from dropping AC and 85 from tank changing is 155 pt to spend on a nilla russ, exterminator or wateva. id drop another 10 and get demolisher tho.


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just play what you want to.

id drop the autocannons and replace the plasmas in the vet squads for meltas so they can shoot while moblie, and as mentioned meltas are needed.

id drop a vanquisher and the give the remaining one pask with a lascannon. i think this would be more effective than two standard vanquishers for 85 less points. B4 S9 roll 2 dice and S10 lascannon as opposed to 2 B3 S8 roll 2 dice shots and heavy bolters. also pask also grants flexibility against MC.

40 pt from plasma to melta, 30 from dropping AC and 85 from tank changing is 155 pt to spend on a nilla russ, exterminator or wateva. id drop another 10 and get demolisher tho.

I almost forgot I posted this lol. I reworked the list a bit before I even noticed there were posts. Heres the new list


IG 2000

HQ
Company Command Squad- x3 plasmaguns, Chimera (150)

TROOPS
Platoon Command Squad- Commander, Autocannon, x2 plasmagun, Chimera (125)
Squad A- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)
Squad B- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)
Squad C- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)
Squad D- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)

Veteran Squad A- Sgt, x3 meltagun, autocannon, chimera (145)
Veteran Squad B- Sgt, x3 meltagun, autocannon, chimera (145)
Veteran Squad C- Sgt, x2 plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (145)

FAST ATTACK
Hellhound squad- Bane Wolf w/smoke launchers (135)
Hellhound squad- Bane Wolf w/smoke launchers (135)


HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Squad- Vanquisher w/ H.Bolter sponsons (175)
Leman Russ Squad- Vanquisher w/ H.Bolter sponsons (175)

Hydra Battery- 2 Hydras (150)

HQ-150
Troops-1080
Fast Attack- 270
Heavy Support-500

Total-2000


Im footslogging the guardsmen, using the chimeras are being used for mobile gun platforms. Seperated the Vanquishers, I'll play a few games with 2 of them before I think of adding Pask.

This list looks alot more aggressive then your old one, with a better swing for your points

OK, list change again! Dropped the autocannons on the vets, that way they can be mobile and take objectives or just harass. Removed one vanquisher and added Pask, following showerbuddy's idea. Dropped almost all my plasma to melta for points and killing against both infantry and armor. And for when it has to be destroyed outright, I added a medusa


IG 2000

HQ
Company Command Squad- x3 flamers, Chimera (120)

ELITES
Marbo- (65)

TROOPS
Platoon Command Squad- Commander, Autocannon, x2 plasmagun, Chimera (125)
Squad A- Sgt, meltagun, autocannon, chimera (125)
Squad B- Sgt, meltagun, autocannon, chimera (125)
Squad C- Sgt, meltagun, autocannon, chimera (125)
Squad D- Sgt, plasmagun, autocannon, chimera (130)

Veteran Squad A- Sgt, x3 meltagun, chimera (135)
Veteran Squad B- Sgt, x3 meltagun, chimera (135)
Veteran Squad C- Sgt, x3 meltagun, chimera (135)

FAST ATTACK
Hellhound squad- Bane Wolf w/smoke launchers (135)
Hellhound squad- Bane Wolf w/smoke launchers (135)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Leman Russ Squad- Vanquisher w/Lascannon, Pask (220)

Medusa- Bastion Breacher shells (140)

Hydra Battery- 2 Hydras (150)

HQ-120
Elites- 65
Troops-1035
Fast Attack- 270
Heavy Support-510

Total-2000

Why have you got meltaguns and autocannons in chimeras for? The plasma was a far better setup. See you need move to get the meltagun into range, which means you cannot fire the autocannon. Of if you stay still to fire the autocannon the melta will probably be out of range, no idiot is going to drive there tank up to you so you can melta it! So you haven't got weapon synergy, your guns don't work in synergy and each are holding the other back. With plasma you have 24" range and same strength which is good for high toughness units and light armour. Throw in that if you move you can still fire 12" and get the two shots, unlike the melta which needs to be within 6" to get 2D6 for armour making you move more. Though tbh your platoon in chimeras is costing more than veterans units, only benefit is more troops. Something to consider as veterans have better BS and can take multiple special weapons.

Bane wolves are but remember you need to get right on top of the enemy to deliver the template which means you're putting yourself in melta range. I found the hellhound to be the best as it can move 12" and the have the flamer template 12" away and plus 8" for the template which is a 32" range.

Vanquisher with paask costs a lot. If you want something to bust vehicles with 2D6 take a medusa with bastion breacher shells, I'm sure that costs a lot less and can fire indirect as well. Plus taking another gives you dual threat along side the existing medusa.

mercer wrote:
Vanquisher with paask costs a lot. If you want something to bust vehicles with 2D6 take a medusa with bastion breacher shells, I'm sure that costs a lot less and can fire indirect as well. Plus taking another gives you dual threat along side the existing medusa.

It can't fire indirect


If you want real anti-armour, you should drop the vanquisher for a manticore

If you really want to grind someone to a pulp run mech guard, I run mech and it works great. I have two of my lists posted if you like the idea, if not then its just a thought. good luck.

Illumini wrote:

mercer wrote:
Vanquisher with paask costs a lot. If you want something to bust vehicles with 2D6 take a medusa with bastion breacher shells, I'm sure that costs a lot less and can fire indirect as well. Plus taking another gives you dual threat along side the existing medusa.

It can't fire indirect


If you want real anti-armour, you should drop the vanquisher for a manticore

Ah yes, its not a barrage weapon

My list was designd for MEQ killing (most of my local players are MEQs), and in that respect it actually does very well.


@mercer- Pask with a vanquisher has to be one of the best units ive used so far. The medusa worked really well, but 72" Str. 8 2d6 pen (+1 on the damage table for pask) was golden. In one game i took out a LRC, 2 predators, and a rhino. Thats more then double the points it costed. The platoon is meant to form a firing line with the chimeras being used a gun platforms, while the vets zip to my objectives after anything on them has been blown away. I know my meltas in the platoon wont see alot of use, but thats what they are there for, as a visible deterrent, like a alarm system sign in someones yard, you just dont mess with it. They did pop a few assault termies before i lost half the platoon in the following assault, but he didn't dare bring his LRC and all those fun toys on it close to me

@Illumini- I was thinking of knocking something off to make room for a Manticore, Ive seen them in action and it really is great. I might take the plasmagun squad out and the banewolf, thats 265 points right there, i could get a manticore and a griffon with some upgrades. I dont make use of the plasma alot, he tends to die due to poor rolling. Ill have to try that out.

I am trying to stay away from the cookie cutter mech IG as much as possible while still being somewhat effective. Fluff in my game has a much higher priority then effectiveness, though winning is always good. Im also thinking of trying orks, if any of you play them I'll be putting a list up soon

If you want to keep the Paskquisher, I would just drop the medusa for a manticore. The manticore is massively better when you can't afford two medusa. You should keep the hydras, so the medusa will probably be the first to go.

I like banewolves, so I think you should keep them. IMO, they are one of the best counter-attack units available to guard armies. Hellhound is also very nice, but IMO, it is not counter-attack, it is another shooting tank - not necessarily negative, you just need to figure out what your army needs.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:My list was designd for MEQ killing (most of my local players are MEQs), and in that respect it actually does very well.


@mercer- Pask with a vanquisher has to be one of the best units ive used so far. The medusa worked really well, but 72" Str. 8 2d6 pen (+1 on the damage table for pask) was golden. In one game i took out a LRC, 2 predators, and a rhino. Thats more then double the points it costed. The platoon is meant to form a firing line with the chimeras being used a gun platforms, while the vets zip to my objectives after anything on them has been blown away. I know my meltas in the platoon wont see alot of use, but thats what they are there for, as a visible deterrent, like a alarm system sign in someones yard, you just dont mess with it. They did pop a few assault termies before i lost half the platoon in the following assault, but he didn't dare bring his LRC and all those fun toys on it close to me

If you want a anti MEQ list then consider a colossus. It's S6 AP3 no cover saves will smash 3+ save to pieces. Much better than a manticore, as the manticore is AP4.

Colossus = bad. It doesn't have the ability to fire directly, and combined with a long minimum range, it means it is not very useful. If he want's anti-MEQ from heavy support, he should look at the russes

Colossus isn't bad at all. Sure it cannot fire directly and the min range is a fair bit but those are the negatives of the weapon and its positives are good benefits. What it does is denies cover save to power armour foes, if a russ hits power armour in cover well they get a cover save - from a colossus they don't. Plus a russ with its massive range can hide at the back of the board, like a colossus and plus doesn't have indirect fire like a colossus.

So the points you raised for the colossus are the same for the russ; except the colossus denies cover saves which is what its all about. Losing your power armour and getting no cover saves isn't cool at all and it wounds on a 2+ as well.