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Iv'e got a couple regular blood angels opponents, and for the first time last saturday I managed to get a charge on the death company with a full unit of banshees.

Much to my dismay, my farseer and the rest of his unit got plasma cannon'd the turn before, so I figured the girls were just going to run in and flounder. My team mate and I put almost all of our shooting into this Death company unit, and after saves and feel no pain, he ended up losing one out of 12 guys in the unit.

Things looked pretty bad, with no doom, hitting on 4's and wounding on 5's, but after the dice started rolling, the girls managed to succeed where a crapton of shooting had failed, they dropped half the unit, and wounded one of the ICs attached, and then cleaned the unit up in turn 2.

I don't think harlequins would have done with well after all the 3+ and feel no pain.. You guys think youll see more banshees in your stores?

Nope.. Banshees and all eldar CC still have the exact same problem and its called 5th edition. Until that or the codex changes I dont see any of them being very useful (warlocks are the exception)

Yes BA have FNP so yes Eldar is gonna have a hard time killing them but they also cost the exact same as normal marines (The sang priest is just an extra unit).. So to kill 10 marines you have to put in even more effort to destroy the same amount of points worth of marines

Same result will happen.. Banshees kill 1 unit maybe then die

What does 5th ed do that destroy's eldar CC? How big was your Banshee squad, perhaps they were equivalent in points to the squad they killed?

warboss vandersnag wrote:What does 5th ed do that destroy's eldar CC? How big was your Banshee squad, perhaps they were equivalent in points to the squad they killed?

T3 and a 4+ save was much less of a problem in earlier editions where firepower was static, expensive, and couldn't really be spammed. Also with older LoS rules, it was possible for Banshees to cross the board on foot without anyone ever getting a shot at them. Also also, they used to be able to charge out of their transports and remain safe from being shot by consolidating into new combats when they wiped out a unit.

Now with all the mid-range, high-volume, vehicle-mounted weapons that armies bristle with, and no way to hide out of LoS or after wiping out an enemy, Banshees are just way too easy to catch in the open, and banshees in the open are just too easy to gun down.

Also, you can't abuse the kill zones anymore to keep banshees alive and to affect the number of enemy models killed to try and organize a 2 round combat.

Banshees aren't bad against Marines, but S3/T3 assault troops are always a risk/reward scenario.

This was 10 banshees with an exarch and mirror blades in a waveserpent, it came out to 282 points for the unit + transport.

Im not positive, but arent death company 20 points per model? There was a thunder hammer in there with them, and they were accompanied by both some special named captain, and some special priest with an invulnerable save.. (Sorry I haven't read the new codex yet, im not sure what the names are.)

What else can I take to deny them saves AND feel no pain? Starcannon warwalkers, sure, but those cost nearly as much and are easier to eliminate.

Eldar are viable in CC, they just aren't as good at it as they were in 4th ed.

Banshees are a good choice for FNP units, but they really need Doom to shine.

Try running Yriel with a Fortune, Doom, Farseer with a full Banshee squad and you will murder most anything you hit. The problem is that it is a bit overkill and often you will be left in the open to get shot to death.

I still think Harlies are the best assault unit in the Eldar arsenal, but that is because of my list.

And yes, Death Company are 20 points a pop before any upgrades.

In the end, trust your own experience, if you have success with them, then that is all the confirmation you need.

I Love the banshees, i always field at least one squad

why, in the last game i played i charged 10 banshees with exarch (executioner) into a mob of 20 Khorne berserkers, and killed all 20 before they could even strike back!!

Falconlance wrote:
Things looked pretty bad, with no doom, hitting on 4's and wounding on 5's, but after the dice started rolling, the girls managed to succeed where a crapton of shooting had failed, they dropped half the unit, and wounded one of the ICs attached, and then cleaned the unit up in turn 2.

I have to say that you rolled pretty well. 10 charging banshees would have killed 5 DC Marines, but the swings back from the remaining 6 should have killed off 4-5 of your girls, as well. If there was an IC in there too, then he'd be worth another girl, so by averages you should have either tied or lost combat on the first turn. On the second turn you should have gotten another 1 Death Company, but again the last 3 would have killed 2 as well.

Quick sidenote: starcannons don't ignore FNP since they're AP 3.

My bad, shouldn't post at night, when I'm bout to fall asleep.

DruidODurham wrote:Quick sidenote: starcannons don't ignore FNP since they're AP 3.

Quick sidenote: starcannons are AP 2.

sourclams wrote:

Falconlance wrote:
Things looked pretty bad, with no doom, hitting on 4's and wounding on 5's, but after the dice started rolling, the girls managed to succeed where a crapton of shooting had failed, they dropped half the unit, and wounded one of the ICs attached, and then cleaned the unit up in turn 2.

I have to say that you rolled pretty well. 10 charging banshees would have killed 5 DC Marines, but the swings back from the remaining 6 should have killed off 4-5 of your girls, as well. If there was an IC in there too, then he'd be worth another girl, so by averages you should have either tied or lost combat on the first turn. On the second turn you should have gotten another 1 Death Company, but again the last 3 would have killed 2 as well.

I have no illusions about the dice, I was very surprised to see what they had accomplished without doom. I have seen them wipe out entire grey hunter units before they even got to retaliate, but only with the assistance of the farseer.

Your calculations are right on, and in regards to what the banshees caused, they were pretty mathematically accurate. (5 wounds vs 6) His retaliation is where the math was off. In round one, two banshees dropped, winning me the combat by 4, and next round, as they cleared the remaining 4 death company, the two IC's in that unit killed another 3 banshees. The banshees held the IC's until the game ended in turn 6, the last round of which, the two IC's won the combat.

The way I see it though, if im going to have a farseer with doom around anyway, I can't see a more efficient unit for dealing with these feel no pain power armor units. Fire prisms come to mind, but I have trouble imagining the overkill S9 AP2 small blasts being at all efficient unless he groups them tight for some reason.

What else in the codex could accomplish as much against SV3+ FNP for less points?

Plasma is what I use against FNP when I'm fielding marines. Anything that ignores armor saves also denies feel no pain, just to restate the rule. So what I'd do as Eldar is probably star cannons. You don't get a ton of shots and they cost a lot, but they are very effective. Fire dragons would work I suppose, but you generally want them against vehicles. Harlequins maybe. If it costs a lot but is extremely effective then that cancels out the point cost nicely.