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1750 Tourny Saim Hann list.

Autarch 130
Eldar Jet Bike
Mandiblasters
Laser Lance

Vyper Squadron (2 Vypers) 150
Eldar Missile Launcher
Shuriken Cannon

Vyper Squadron (2 Vypers) 150
Eldar Missile Launcher
Shuriken Cannon

Shining Spears (5 Spears) 222
Withdraw
Skilled Rider
Exarch

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6) 152
Shuriken Cannon x 2

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6) 152
Shuriken Cannon x 2

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6) 152
Shuriken Cannon x 2

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (3) 76
Shuriken Cannon x 1

Fire Prism 150
Holofields


Fire Prism 150
Holofields


Fire Dragons Unit (6) 96

Falcon 170
Holofields
Vectored Engines


Total 1750.


Dragons are mounted in the falcon.

I'm unsure on how the synergy of this list is, since I am yet to play test it. On paper, it looks a bit hodgepodge though everything has its purpose.

Comments, thoughts and criticism welcome.

I'd take naked Prisms and drop the Falcon's vectored engines and give it stones.
Vectored engines come only in effect when the Falcon moves over 12''.
I'd give it also a shuricannon.

The army lacks anti-heavy tank. One small FD unit is a bit less.

The only kind of AT that I don't have are lances. I've already got the highest strength shots in the Eldar dex :<

Planning on the speed of the vypers to try get side and rear shots with the missiles.

Yeah I agree you lack anti-tank. Dragons in a Falcon are a bad mix as they both do the same thing making them too big a target and once the Falcon is gone the FD are neutured and you've no serious AT left.

I'd get 2 FD squads in Wave serpent and keep the falcon but arm it with BL and no vectored engines (star engines are a better option for late game objective contesting) then you've got 3 serious AT units.

I'd drop the Vipers to acheive this they really are papaer thin and just simply not great anymore (due to true LoS).

You have one unit of Dragons, once they are gone you dont have much that can reliably kill high AV tanks.

holofields is a bad investment on the prisms, take them naked instead. Use the pts to get some warlocks for your jetbike squads.

mounting dragons in a falcon is not a good idea. Use a Serpent instead.

Wouldn't a jetseer council also be better than the Autarch and Spears?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In fact the Falcon isn't even legal!

Here's what I'd do with your list:

Jetseer: Fortne, Runes - Witnessing & Warding = 140

5 Jetlocks: Enhance, 2 x Embolden, 2x Destructor = 270

5 Fire Dragons: Serpent with 2 X Shuriken cannons = 190

5 Fire Dragons: Serpent with 2 X Shuriken cannons = 190

6 Guardian Jetbikes: 2 x Shuriken cannons = 152

6 Guardian Jetbikes: 2 x Shuriken cannons = 152

6 Guardian Jetbikes: 2 x Shuriken cannons = 152

5 Dire Avengers: Exarch with 2 x Suriken catapult = 77

Fire Prism = 115

Fire Prism = 115

Falcon: Bright lance, Holofields, Star engines = 195

Total: 1748

Dire Avengers do DAVU on the Falcon.

I've been running a Seer Council for a while and truth be told, I haven't found them anywhere near as good as they should be. I run Jetseer + Enhance + 4x Destructor, and the best thing about them is the ability to wipe out a whole squad with Destructor. If they're in combat they'll get whittled down, and if they're not every shot will be sunk into them anyhow.

Spears are just something different.

I've taken VE off the Falcon and added Spirit Stones + Shuriken Cannon, since indeed it is not legal.

I'm unsure whether to drop the Vypers, every game I've played they've made double their points back each. The ability to get behind tanks helps, though that said I don't usually come up against LRs.

I can see what you are talking about with the FD inside the falcon. Probably drop the squad of 3 bikes for 5 DAs to go inside, and buy a serpent with some point skimming.

I like the above list actually, though in Tournaments down here a SC is also a -5%+ to your comp score which adds to 25% of your overall score

I've kind of given up using spears myself. The problem is that they rely utterly on charging the enemy - but so many other hammer assault units have an equal or greater charge range. TH/SS terminators in a LR, for instance, can move about 21" on the charge, and winged monstrous creature can move 18". Even if they do charge something, that's a 352 pt unit - it may well wipe something out and get killed immediately next turn. T4 3+ save isn't tough when you cost 35 pts + upgrades.

Anyway, I'd tot up the jetbike units (with warlocks, they seem a bit weak otherwise) and add 2 FD squads in serpents, plus 2 fire prisms (holofields optional) - and only then consider what to add. FDs especially, I would consider 2 units mandatory. I'm heavily considering 3 units at 2000 pts myself.

Yeah, I think I might drop the holofields, take another squad of dragons, drop the 3 bikes, maybe drop the falcon too, and take 2 WS.

Have to bit a juggling which quite frankly atm I cannot be stuffed to do.

Yeah juggle it around you might find that the Singing spears do well but I imagine if you were unimpressed with the Jetseer council you'd be horrified with the spears...

Let us know hwne you do the juggling and see what you've come up with.

It wasn't the survivability that made me unimpressed, it was their inability to reliably kill things.

Sure wounding on 2's and hitting on 3s is fantastic and all, the fact that out of the 10-15 wounds you'd cause against MEQ they'd only take 2-5 wounds. Anything that wasn't MEQ would get toasted by destructor anyway.

You only have to fail a couple of rolls and the Seer Council really starts to fall apart :\ I just have bad rolling. That said, the Spears would probably fare no better? Atleast I guess in my opinion they stay more useful even if they lose wounds.

Spears will do better against MEQ/TEQ against pretty anything else the Council will do far better. In round 2 of the combat (because MEQs don't run away and get swept) the Seer council will continue to perform, the spears will die horribly, espsecially if he's got any power weapons in there. Remember your Seer Council's save is better against power weapons than the spears is against normal weapons and they get nothing against power weapons at all. Most MEQ units except for tacs/devastators (that you'll easily beat with either unit) will have some form of power weapon, usually a fist and your spears will die very horribly.

Even if they crushingly defeat their oppoentns in that first round they are sat there with no cover save in front of the enemies guns. Again the Seer council will survive this far better.

If you are struggling with then try taking a full council or at least 10 guys, it is a points sink but man will it annihilate anything it hits!

Yeah, I've never used a seer council, but I understand the main difference from shining spears is fortune. A 3+/4++ re-rollable save is good enough to make 45-pt models viable. But a straight 3+ on 35-pt models? You're going to lose too many men too fast. Generally, you assault something, you wipe it out (and get shot off the board immediately) or you whiff, and all the spears die over the next 2 turns of combat, before it becomes viable for them to use hit&run. And if anything assaults you, god help your 350 point doom squad, they'll be swept off the board like a 90-point marine combat squad.

Farseer
RoWi
Eldar Jetbike
Fortune
RoWa



Warlock Unit 5
Jetbikes
Destructor 3
Enhance 1
Embolden 1

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6)
Shuriken Cannon

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6)
Shuriken Cannon

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6)
Shuriken Cannon

Dire Avengers (5)
Exarch
Dual Avenger Shuriken Catapults


Falcon
Holofields
Shuriken Cannon
Spirit Stones

Fire Dragons Unit (5)

Wave Serpent
Shuriken Cannons
Spirit Stones

Fire Dragons Unit (5)

Wave Serpent
Shuriken Cannons
Spirit Stones

Fire Prism
Spirit Stones

Fire Prism
Spirit Stones

1743.

I might drop the stones off the prisms for more points, but where to put them.

Drop the exarch from the DA and just take 5 regs. 6 with dual catas isn't going to do enough to make it worth while to get out of the falcon.

Drop the stones from the Prisms and put a BL on the falcon.

Well, a small Council doesn't cut it.

What he said - although you could also keep the spirit stones and put an EML on the falcon instead IMO. Just as good in most situations, can be used as a defensive weapon.

Farseer
RoWi
Eldar Jetbike
Fortune
RoWa

Warlock Unit 5
Jetbikes
Destructor 3
Enhance 1
Embolden 1

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6)
Shuriken Cannon

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6)
Shuriken Cannon

Guardian Jetbike Squadron (6)
Shuriken Cannon

Dire Avengers (5)

Falcon
Holofields
Eldar Missile Launcher
Spirit Stones

Fire Dragons Unit (6)

Wave Serpent
Shuriken Cannons
Spirit Stones

Fire Dragons Unit (6)

Wave Serpent
Shuriken Cannons
Spirit Stones

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Hows this look then? - Prism stones, + 2 FD + EML on the falcon.

How many do you run in a SC? I've always its 5+. I know if I take more than 5 its a guaranteed -1 or -2 to my comp score (ie 5-10% of my overall score)

I'd give the DA's a Serpent with stones and shuricannon and take the points to add another Warlock.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but in this list a Falcon isn't terrible. The primary targets will be the seer council and Prisms so the Falcon should be a #1 threat if you play it smart. Just keep it near the rear and gunboat it at heavy armor targets. EML will work good too, but don't think of it as a defensive weapon on a falcon as your Main gun should be targeting tanks, so a str4 blast isn't doing squat.

I was thinking of treating it more as a third shot S8 shot thats cheaper as opposed to a defensive weapon. I can still go 12 and fire the pulse laser, though it doesn't work like a Lance.

Atleast though, the way I see it is with the right kind of motorboating around Would usually atleast yield a side armour result or better yet rear.

I'm just having a hard time justifying the 35pts for a Bright Lance. Wouldn't having 2x6 squads of FD be enough to deal with any AV 12+?

As it stands its;

2 x S9 Small Templates
18 x S9 Attacks
12 x S8 AP1 Meltas
3 x S8 shots

I haven't done a tournament before though, so am I terribly deluded in that you can never have enough AT?

Another thing I'm slightly worried about is coming from reserve. Generally I roll in from T2 onwards, however I normally have PW Autarch on bike to add a +1.

Thanks for all the top notch input so far by the by.

I'd drop 2 Fire dragons and spirit stones on the Falcon and that should be enough for another warlock? Anything you can do to buff the numbers in that squad is a good idea. Looks pretty solid alround though.