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My first attempt at a mech list with orks.
I won't put down the equipment of the nobs because ork players should know it is the standard set up of a bosspole and power klaw.

Ghaz-225
with 15 burna boyz-225
in battlewagon-Grot riggers, 1 Big Shoota,Armour plates, Deff Rolla-130

KFF Mek-Power Klaw, Bosspole, 'eavy armour-120


Troops

12 slugga boyz+ Nob
with trukk, Boarding Plank-152

19 Shoota boyz- KFF here-114

Fast Attack

10 Stormboyz+Nob-160

Deffkopta-Twin-linked rokkits, buzzsaw-70

Deffkopta-Twin-linked rokkits, buzzsaw-70

Heavy Support

battlewagon-Grot riggers, 1 Big Shoota,Armour plates, Deff Rolla-130

Total-1396

104 points left. what to do?

There is no room in any of your vehicles for the KFF mek.

Oh sorry i forgot about that. I edited the list

Looks like its got potential, but i wouldn't really call it a mek army, i mean, ya got one big mek and two battlewagons... when i run a mek army i run at least 1 mek 2-4 deffdreads some kans and a wagon also 3 big shootas on the wagons really arent neccessary unless you think yer only going to be moving it 6 inches each round, they aren't defensive and the battlewagon isnt fast, so go 7 inches and you lose the firepower. Of course if its your plan to go 6 inches with em each round, that's not a bad build, though it does look a bit soft to me. I'd suggest trying to free up around 85 points and toss in a deff dread with burna and big shoota combo, keep him close to kff, and use him to rip through enemy infantry

I was actually unsure of what to call it because i was just focused on the battlewagons. I guess it should have been speed freaks. I actually have 3 battlewagons, one being with the warboss and skorchas.

Good call on the big shootas. I thought all the ork vehicles were fast. I will change them to the shoota boyz that way i can move flat out and still get the big shoota shots out.

I really just plan to get into the opponents face as fast as possible so i don't think a dread would be that great for this list.

He's running MECH, not MEK, so he won't want walkers, as they will be too slow.
Battlewagons cann only shoot 1 big shoota if they move at all. Just take 2, one for shooting and the other as insurance vs wep. destoyed.

The boyz inside the battlewagons cannot shoot if you move flat out, they can only shoot if you you move 6" or under, or if you get em out afterward.

Yes the walker is too slow, but thats not the point The point is... IT'S a WALKER! Soooooooooo many people I have seen get scared of walkers, it will take almost all your fire for the first if not the second round as well, unless they manage to kill it, thus protecting your BWGNS All but the most experienced player will compare Armor values to BWGN, 14 to the deff dread 12 plus deff dread having 2 DCCW means instant death, they will choose it as their target, watch their laz cannons trying to hit it, and if they do kill it, so what? Those shots coulda killed yer BWGN, i think of em as big 85 point bullet magnets

You have obvoiusly never played anyone good.
A good player will think "Hmm, those BW will hit me in 2 turns, and that Dread will hit me in 4." and shoot the BW. Hell, I'd THANK YOU for running dread in a full mech list, and it means less wagons that I have to kill.

What kind of fool simply shoots the easist thing to kill? You try and kill the stuff that will do the most damage, whilst conserving your own forces.

Why can't the boyz in the wagon shoot if it moves flatout? I read the rules but it doesn't mention anything about that.

I also forgot about the whole weapon destroyed>immobilized thing as well. I will just put one big shoota in each boy squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh nevermind i just saw the 'follows the same rules as normal vehicles' part

Antelope you may notice that, if you are decent with tactics so it seems simple to you, but again I have played for over 4 months against people that have been playing for years, and alot of them STILL target the Deff Dread, yes the BWGN's can get there quickly, yes the dreed takes longer, but a vehicle can still be harmed if it is assaulted a dreed can't. A BWGN can screen and block all LOS to a dredd allowing it to get in there. A BWGN is easier to destroy in melee then a walker. All these facts point to why the deff dread sucks up rounds, once it is in your face, its very hard to kill, but not very hard if shooting, unlike the 14 FA of the WGN. To simply say all those I have been playing aren't good player just kind of makes you look the fool for overlooking so many little things that make a big difference, but I'm sure you know best, because your kind always do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daemon wrote:Why can't the boyz in the wagon shoot if it moves flatout? I read the rules but it doesn't mention anything about that.

I also forgot about the whole weapon destroyed>immobilized thing as well. I will just put one big shoota in each boy squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh nevermind i just saw the 'follows the same rules as normal vehicles' part

Yea it kind of sucks and believe me, as a soldier I don't agree, and as an ork player I really dont agree your accuracy would go to hell but spray enough rounds, someone is gonna hit, thats why I like the apokalypse formation for the lootas, they can still shoot but on a d3 roll of one you accidentally kill a loota! bwahaha

Nice little staw man you got their

Anyway:

yes the BWGN's can get there quickly, yes the dreed takes longer, but a vehicle can still be harmed if it is assaulted a dreed can't

Why would I assault a dread? Besides, the stuff that would assault a dread will hurt it, sometimes more easily than if it were a BW (as you need 6s to hit the BW, but only 3's or 4's to hit the dread)
If you let a BW get close enough to assault, its done its job. You need to stop them before they get to your lines

A BWGN can screen and block all LOS to a dredd allowing it to get in there.

Thats not a reason to shoot the dread first, thats a reason to kill the BW first

A BWGN is easier to destroy in melee then a walker.

Quite a lot of stuff can kill the dread as eaily, if not more so, that a BW
IE:
SM w/PF has a .06 chance to kill a dread per attack, and a .06 per attack vs the BW (if it moves 12", which is should)
'Fex has .14 chance to kill a dread per attack, and .08 to kill a BW (moving 12")

All these facts point to why the deff dread sucks up rounds, once it is in your face, its very hard to kill, but not very hard if shooting, unlike the 14 FA of the WGN

Unless I, for example, choose to shoot it in the face with melta guns


It is a LOT worse to let a BW loose in your lines that a Dread, as the Dread can kill a unit, then gets melted. The BW can tank shock evey unit in a 12" line (1/2D6 S10 hits each + Ld check) and unload 2 units (warboss/Gazzy+boyz/nobz/burnas) which will shoot and multi-assault stuff. With good rolling, a Dread can kill one unit. The BW can kill 4 or 5 units or more.

Black Antelope wrote:Nice little staw man you got their

Anyway:

yes the BWGN's can get there quickly, yes the dreed takes longer, but a vehicle can still be harmed if it is assaulted a dreed can't

Why would I assault a dread? Besides, the stuff that would assault a dread will hurt it, sometimes more easily than if it were a BW (as you need 6s to hit the BW, but only 3's or 4's to hit the dread)
If you let a BW get close enough to assault, its done its job. You need to stop them before they get to your lines
when you assault a vehicle you assault rear armor, thats a 10 bub, so why would you need a 6?

A BWGN can screen and block all LOS to a dredd allowing it to get in there.

Thats not a reason to shoot the dread first, thats a reason to kill the BW first
[u][u]with a much lkess likely chance, why stop an effect when you can stop a cause?[/u][/u]

A BWGN is easier to destroy in melee then a walker.

Quite a lot of stuff can kill the dread as eaily, if not more so, that a BW
IE:
SM w/PF has a .06 chance to kill a dread per attack, and a .06 per attack vs the BW (if it moves 12", which is should)
'Fex has .14 chance to kill a dread per attack, and .08 to kill a BW (moving 12")
Yes monstrous creatures can easily pop either a dredd or wgn, but they have few of those and thats 1 army out of a potential of a lot more, you always have to modify army lists depending on what you are fighting, there is no 100% effective force vs every army or everyone would just use that one.

All these facts point to why the deff dread sucks up rounds, once it is in your face, its very hard to kill, but not very hard if shooting, unlike the 14 FA of the WGN

Unless I, for example, choose to shoot it in the face with melta guns
melta guns only have a near guaranteed chance within half range, if yer BWGN's got there they gonna be too busy and its too late to reassess priorities. if in melee meltas only hit walkers on 6's

It is a LOT worse to let a BW loose in your lines that a Dread, as the Dread can kill a unit, then gets melted. The BW can tank shock evey unit in a 12" line (1/2D6 S10 hits each + Ld check) and unload 2 units (warboss/Gazzy+boyz/nobz/burnas) which will shoot and multi-assault stuff. With good rolling, a Dread can kill one unit. The BW can kill 4 or 5 units or more.

Which is true, but at no point is it truly EASIER to kill, unlike the deff dread which is still devastating and can tear through troops and vehicles with impunity, but is severly weakened at range. As Patton once said "If you do not strike your enemy when they are vulnerable, lay down and die before they get here and save the lamentations of their women. there is no mercy, no honor in war, there is the dead and the wounded, mentally and physically, pride the worst of all, when the men below you fall due to action or inaction upon your part as commander."

So if there were battlewagons coming at you with 20 shoota boyz in each +15 burna boyz you'd rather shoot at the dread?

daemon wrote:So if there were battlewagons coming at you with 20 shoota boyz in each +15 burna boyz you'd rather shoot at the dread?

if i were for some strange reason not using my orks, and actually had decent shooting yes, because 1-2 shots would prolly kill the dredd, then put the rest into the bw, still gonna take the BW two turns to cross, second round try to pop BWGN with burnas who would get out, and now be close enough for all shoota/bolta shots to rip into em

What if the Ork player went 1st. You'd only have one round of shooting before you could be assaulted.
At which point it becomes suisidle to shoot at anything other than transports.

A good ork player would only allow you one round of shooting. Maybe not even if you strategize well enough.

But then again it really depends how you'll play the list.

So ill take it that my list is alright for now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I made an adjustment to my list because i feared i may not have fast anti-tank so i replaced to trukk squads with 2 deffkoptas and 10 stormboyz. The stormboyz are for sneak attacks

Black Antelope wrote:What if the Ork player went 1st. You'd only have one round of shooting before you could be assaulted.
At which point it becomes suisidle to shoot at anything other than transports.

well at that point they are pretty dang close and side armor on a BWGN is the same as a deff dredd, so at this point i would most likely shoot the BWGN with whichever troop i deemed most dangerous; so i suppose you have a good point, provided the ork player is going first, but you dont usually KNOW who is going first even if you win the roll off there is always a 16.7% chance they could STILL go first by stealing initiative. The entire concept of shooting the dredd is that if you let it get close, it can wreak havoc, so try not to let it get close a vehicle travelling for one round is that vehicle expending a round, not shooting or anything, but a deff could still shoot and if it is the easier kill, you zap it then worry about the wagons. It's not about an overall priority, its about a situational priority, the second a situation shifts so should your priorities. What if they play a heavy deepstrike/drop pod list? These BWGN's yer so proud of are now half way across the table, DROP POD ASSAULT! now you got a dreadnought chillin behind them to blow them outta the water on rear armor. Your deff dread back there will give them a little bit of thinking time to see if they wanna risk it. And if THEY are going first they could pop a crap ton of guys behind your wagon which could tear into you. You cant always think like you are just going to play another ork player, some armies will annihilate that strategy and you have to work around it.

Further the OP states "a good ork player will only allow one round of shooting" that pretty much makes it sound as they believe running a full mek army, or bad moon (shooting) army means you are automatically a bad player. My bad moon army has YET to suffer a single lost game. If you guys are so into the, "this is how it should be played" yer playing the wrong game!

One round for kult of speed/speed freaks and i play passively, don't be a smart ass

If your going to continue arguing take it somewhere else.
I just wanted some help on the list not a battle of ideologies and egos

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:What if the Ork player went 1st. You'd only have one round of shooting before you could be assaulted.
At which point it becomes suisidle to shoot at anything other than transports.

well at that point they are pretty dang close and side armor on a BWGN is the same as a deff dredd, so at this point i would most likely shoot the BWGN with whichever troop i deemed most dangerous; so i suppose you have a good point, provided the ork player is going first, but you dont usually KNOW who is going first even if you win the roll off there is always a 16.7% chance they could STILL go first by stealing initiative.

Thats entirly irelivent to the point. We were talking about what would happen if the ork player went first, not generaly. If someone talks about how to counter a specific situation, it is not helpful to come in and say that situtaion is unliky.

The entire concept of shooting the dredd is that if you let it get close, it can wreak havoc, so try not to let it get close a vehicle travelling for one round is that vehicle expending a round, not shooting or anything, but a deff could still shoot and if it is the easier kill, you zap it then worry about the wagons. It's not about an overall priority, its about a situational priority, the second a situation shifts so should your priorities.

Again, I refute that dreads can cause as much havok as a BW loose in someones lines. I really don't understand what you mean by the bit about expending a round to avoid the dread - it will always be slower than the BW, and your tanks should not be alongside the BW in first place, so you don't need to move to avoid a 2nd turn charge from the DD.
Also, the concept that anyone should be afried of a DD's shooting is laughable.

What if they play a heavy deepstrike/drop pod list? These BWGN's yer so proud of are now half way across the table, DROP POD ASSAULT! now you got a dreadnought chillin behind them to blow them outta the water on rear armor. Your deff dread back there will give them a little bit of thinking time to see if they wanna risk it. And if THEY are going first they could pop a crap ton of guys behind your wagon which could tear into you. You cant always think like you are just going to play another ork player, some armies will annihilate that strategy and you have to work around it.

Firstly, I am aproching this as IG player. What were are discussing would be a impossible task for an ork player, for whom shooting BW to death is an futile task.
Secondly, the ork player in your example obvoiusly does not know how to fight a Drop Pod Assault army. Any good player would give the SM the first go (If possible) and castle up in a corner. They would dismount some low vaule troops (boyz/grots/trukks/buggyz) to prevent the enemy getting into melta range, and circle the wagons to present as much AV14 as possible, and all be within the KFF shield. They will barly scrach you.
If its DoW, its even better if you give them 1st, as you can start off the board so the DP cannot Alpha Strike.
3rd - You think a DD is a good anti-dreadnought unit? You charge that DD in, and if the Dread has a DCCW, it has a good chance of killing you before you can strike. Its so much safer to simply Deff Roll it, Plank it or assault it with boyz (w/ PK Nob obvoiusly).

Further the OP states "a good ork player will only allow one round of shooting" that pretty much makes it sound as they believe running a full mek army, or bad moon (shooting) army means you are automatically a bad player. My bad moon army has YET to suffer a single lost game. If you guys are so into the, "this is how it should be played" yer playing the wrong game!

Again, way to degernerate into insults and straw men.
What you seem to not grasp is that this is a discussion about MECH ORKS. Not Badmoon, not Mek, not any other list type. You cannot corrolate the performance of a unit in one list type to the same performance in another list. If you ran a footslogging Goff list with no vehciles, then added a single trukk, what do you think would happen to it? Yet in a Mech list Trukks can be very good.
The OP was talking about a person playing a Mech list, and it is true. Obvoiusly, a shooting army will never want to be in CC on the second turn.
Finaly, your win/loss record is again, pointless waving of your e-pen. Please stop that, no one wants to see it.

Black Antelope wrote:

Warlordron'swaagh wrote:

Black Antelope wrote:What if the Ork player went 1st. You'd only have one round of shooting before you could be assaulted.
At which point it becomes suisidle to shoot at anything other than transports.

well at that point they are pretty dang close and side armor on a BWGN is the same as a deff dredd, so at this point i would most likely shoot the BWGN with whichever troop i deemed most dangerous; so i suppose you have a good point, provided the ork player is going first, but you dont usually KNOW who is going first even if you win the roll off there is always a 16.7% chance they could STILL go first by stealing initiative.

Thats entirly irelivent to the point. We were talking about what would happen if the ork player went first, not generaly. If someone talks about how to counter a specific situation, it is not helpful to come in and say that situtaion is unliky.

The entire concept of shooting the dredd is that if you let it get close, it can wreak havoc, so try not to let it get close a vehicle travelling for one round is that vehicle expending a round, not shooting or anything, but a deff could still shoot and if it is the easier kill, you zap it then worry about the wagons. It's not about an overall priority, its about a situational priority, the second a situation shifts so should your priorities.

Again, I refute that dreads can cause as much havok as a BW loose in someones lines. I really don't understand what you mean by the bit about expending a round to avoid the dread - it will always be slower than the BW, and your tanks should not be alongside the BW in first place, so you don't need to move to avoid a 2nd turn charge from the DD.
Also, the concept that anyone should be afried of a DD's shooting is laughable.

What if they play a heavy deepstrike/drop pod list? These BWGN's yer so proud of are now half way across the table, DROP POD ASSAULT! now you got a dreadnought chillin behind them to blow them outta the water on rear armor. Your deff dread back there will give them a little bit of thinking time to see if they wanna risk it. And if THEY are going first they could pop a crap ton of guys behind your wagon which could tear into you. You cant always think like you are just going to play another ork player, some armies will annihilate that strategy and you have to work around it.

Firstly, I am aproching this as IG player. What were are discussing would be a impossible task for an ork player, for whom shooting BW to death is an futile task.
Secondly, the ork player in your example obvoiusly does not know how to fight a Drop Pod Assault army. Any good player would give the SM the first go (If possible) and castle up in a corner. They would dismount some low vaule troops (boyz/grots/trukks/buggyz) to prevent the enemy getting into melta range, and circle the wagons to present as much AV14 as possible, and all be within the KFF shield. They will barly scrach you.
If its DoW, its even better if you give them 1st, as you can start off the board so the DP cannot Alpha Strike.
3rd - You think a DD is a good anti-dreadnought unit? You charge that DD in, and if the Dread has a DCCW, it has a good chance of killing you before you can strike. Its so much safer to simply Deff Roll it, Plank it or assault it with boyz (w/ PK Nob obvoiusly).

Further the OP states "a good ork player will only allow one round of shooting" that pretty much makes it sound as they believe running a full mek army, or bad moon (shooting) army means you are automatically a bad player. My bad moon army has YET to suffer a single lost game. If you guys are so into the, "this is how it should be played" yer playing the wrong game!

Again, way to degernerate into insults and straw men.
What you seem to not grasp is that this is a discussion about MECH ORKS. Not Badmoon, not Mek, not any other list type. You cannot corrolate the performance of a unit in one list type to the same performance in another list. If you ran a footslogging Goff list with no vehciles, then added a single trukk, what do you think would happen to it? Yet in a Mech list Trukks can be very good.
The OP was talking about a person playing a Mech list, and it is true. Obvoiusly, a shooting army will never want to be in CC on the second turn.
Finaly, your win/loss record is again, pointless waving of your e-pen. Please stop that, no one wants to see it.

First off, i havent insulted anyone; in fact I have actually complimented both of you, a few times on your thoughts; you have been the one doing the insulting champ, you talk about a base strategy to which i counter, then YOU add a supposition condition, to which I show why that is not always "the best" move. You choose not to look down from the soapbox to what is around you. I will no longer argue with you, you arent worth my time, swing by rhode island sometime and I will gladly play you and we can see then who wins, then talk gak. For now I'm done crossing e-peens with you, who thinks you have been so objective. Furthermore....WTF is a straw man? Just curious never heard the phrase, I won't be responding to this thread anymore since we already have einstein in the room, my advice and counterpoints are obviously not up to par with e=mc^2 Ta Ta

daemon wrote:Warboss-Power Klaw, Boss Pole, Cybork Body, 'eavy armour, shoota/kombi-skorcha, ammo runt-113
with 15 burna boyz-150
in battlewagon-Grot riggers, 1 Big Shoota,Armour plates, Deff Rolla-130

that's a really good good deal on the burna boyz is it buy 2 get one 1 free?

KFF Mek-Power Klaw, Bosspole, 'eavy armour-120
goes with one trukk

Your KFF should be in a battlewagon it's better protected and you get a bigger force field due to the size of the wagon

11 slugga boyz
with trukk-106

Trukks should come standard equipped with a reinforced ram, boarding plank, and Rokkit Launcher (red paint optional)

20 Shoota boyz+Nob-160

20 Shoota boyz+Nob-160

I would drop both units to 18 shootas and a Nob so you can put your Mek in and if one get blown up you can embark him into the other one.

10 Stormboyz+Nob-160

Deffkopta-Twin-linked rokkits, buzzsaw-70

Deffkopta-Twin-linked rokkits, buzzsaw-70

Stormboyz might be a little small but the rest looks good

battlewagon-Grot riggers, 1 Big Shoota,Armour plates, Deff Rolla-130

battlewagon-Grot riggers, 1 Big Shoota,Armour plates, Deff Rolla-130

Standard issue but the red paint is a little more appealing here. But if you move your Mek to here and are gunna give him a PK put some boarding planks on.

Oh shoot thats right i was thinking a group of 10 because thats whats i usually use. Ill edit