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I am still in the works of making a very well balanced BA army but have hit one major road block. Is it better for the Assault squad to be in a rhino or just use jump packs. The way I see it with rhinos they can get to objectives quickly but then cannot assault. With jump packs I still move bloody fast, can assault when ever I want but have a higher risk of being shot at and dying while moving to objectives. Is there a distinct advantage over one or the other?

I think the general consenus is use jump packs if you intend to deep strike your assault squads so you can benefit from descent of angels and use rhinos if you intend for them to be on the board.

Personally I'm a fan of 1 man squad combat squadded with jump packs DSing in with 1 melta in each squad, but thats me.

15 point Rhinos for Assault Squads are cool (if I counted right) but the Rhinos give a lot of kill points unless they have flat-outted. But then again, if you Deep Strike, you have a chance of misshapping (although they have Descents of Angels).
I would prefer with jump packs, but then again, it's your choice.
But the real question is if you want spend tons of money in Rhinos.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I want jump packs. It will save me 30 pts which I can then use to put sponsons on one of my Baal Preds etc. Also I think that if you take the rhino you have to essentially treat the assault squad like it's your tactical squad but instead of bolters have bolt pistol close combat weapon. That kinda sucks though cause you cannot sit back protect and rapid fire. Instead you have to charge which moves you away from your objective or be charged and waste some of the BA wonderful charging bonuses. The one upside to the rhinos were that I planned on leaving my sang priests in them and not worry so much about them getting shot at. Now that they are on jump packs I have to start better equiping them to survive better.

If you're looking at full 10-man squads, I would probably use jump packs (depending, of course, on the composition of the rest of your army).

For 5-man squads, I would go razorback pretty much every time.

nyyman wrote:15 point Rhinos for Assault Squads are cool (if I counted right) but the Rhinos give a lot of kill points unless they have flat-outted. But then again, if you Deep Strike, you have a chance of misshapping (although they have Descents of Angels).
I would prefer with jump packs, but then again, it's your choice.
But the real question is if you want spend tons of money in Rhinos.

I think you're implying that flat-out fast rhinos will gain a cover save. This is not the case, as only flat-out skimmers gain the 4+ cover save.

willydstyle wrote:

nyyman wrote:15 point Rhinos for Assault Squads are cool (if I counted right) but the Rhinos give a lot of kill points unless they have flat-outted. But then again, if you Deep Strike, you have a chance of misshapping (although they have Descents of Angels).
I would prefer with jump packs, but then again, it's your choice.
But the real question is if you want spend tons of money in Rhinos.

I think you're implying that flat-out fast rhinos will gain a cover save. This is not the case, as only flat-out skimmers gain the 4+ cover save.

This is very true.

But; using smoke launchers 1st turn.. they will have a cover save for 50%+ of their effective lifespan

Land Raiders for designated transports
muhahaha

The Assault Marines in a rhino do have the option of taking 2 special weapons if going 10 strong. It also allows them to keep very mobile and retain their shooting ability with said specials. The down side is that bolt pistol shooing doesn't really account for much if you can't follow up with the charge.
The bigger problem I see is that unlike C:SM rhinos the BA ones only carry 10 marines. Meaning that if you want that matched pair of specials you have to forgo adding any ICs to the squad. The same is true for the Phobos Land Raider and the Drop Pod in the BA codex.

Cheers,
~Volkan

I'm pretty sure that SM rhinos don't have a capacity upgrade. Only their land raiders got bumped up a bit.

You are right, I'm just remembering things wrong.

I think either jump packs or the rhinos are both viable. It just depends upon your style of play. Rhinos offer protection while the jump packs are more aggressive. Personally I currently like the jump packs since this option seems to work better overall with the rest of the army the way I want to play.

G

They are faster and harder to kill except slightly more expensive and not all can shoot whilst advancing.

Fast vehicles are not faster than Jump Infantry; The Jump Infantry can bypass terrain that might immobilize a Rhino, and don't have to screw around with embarking/disembarking to get anywhere. If the Rhino is destroyed, the Assault Marines lose their mobility as well as their protection.

What about 5 man squads in TL asscannon razorbacks? Spam 6 of those things, and you have more than enough scoring units with one helluva bite. Who cares if your marines never leave their razorbacks? You have 6 (!) fast asscannons, not to mention any baals you might be fielding. At their ridiculously low points, seems too good to be true

It is too good to be true: Your Assault Marines will leave the smoking wreckage (or crater) of their Razorbacks. AV11 sucks.

an assortment is probably a good way to go.

half can be in rhinos, half with packs.

the rhinos move forward flat out and the Jpack marines follow behind benifiting from a 4+ cover.

the Jpack marines can intercept anything attempting to assault your rhinos and once you reach the enemy lines the Jpacks can take the fight to the enemy while the Rhino marines can sit on objectives.

misterfiveseven wrote:What about 5 man squads in TL asscannon razorbacks? Spam 6 of those things, and you have more than enough scoring units with one helluva bite. Who cares if your marines never leave their razorbacks? You have 6 (!) fast asscannons, not to mention any baals you might be fielding. At their ridiculously low points, seems too good to be true

That's the thing, this kind of troops selection serves a different purpose entirely than the 10 man assault squad in a rhino or with jump packs, so it's not really part of the comparison.

This was my problem. I hear lots of great ideas but I cannot find an equilibrium. I tried the razorbacks and the armour couldn't cut it. (all the players I know love meltas and lots of them) I really like the idea of both jump packs and rhinos but once I put enough squads in I didn't have enough points for other cool units (I play 1750 so not a lot of head room) At the moment I am just using the packs and deep striking. That way I can have 10 men units with sanguinary priests meltas powerfists and be able to move around the table quickly. I found that the rhinos almost never survive a game and having the jump packs makes it easier for mad dashes in the final turns for objectives.

For troop transports I take 1 drop pod, and thats only so the 2 drop pods with dreads arrive one turn 1 together.

It seems like GW is getting better and better at making multiple options appealing.

Obviously taking them as simple Jump Infantry is a straightforward option, and it's the only way to go if you actually want them to assault things. My rule: If it can't move or assault more than 6", it's not really an assault troop.

Putting them in a Rhino (w/ 2x Meltas), or in a Razorback (w/ 1x Melta) is not a bad option to grab objectives and run up and kill tanks. You can even give the Sarge an Infernus pistol for an overcosted, but still somewhat intimidating Melta unit. Due to the point break on transports, this is actually fairly appealing as compared to Tacticals, and you can get a pair of (or even three) Meltas in a Rhino, which is a nice thing to have.

It depends on the rest of your list. If you're going to run a heavy dread or heavy tank list go with the Rhino, if you're going for a lot of infantry go with the jump packs.

I'm just going to jump in here with a remind that jump troops can leap over obstacles. a pair of rhino's going down a street can be cockblocked by a vehicle, or 1 rhino can asplode blocking the path of the one behind it. Jump troops can leap over carparks like that, over building/hills/area terrain, Melee combats (That you don't want to join in)... that flexability has been a winner for me for jumptroops.

willydstyle wrote:I'm pretty sure that SM rhinos don't have a capacity upgrade. Only their land raiders got bumped up a bit.

BA standard LR has 2 less slots than SM LR. That's the only difference.

I prefer JP. If I want to deep strike them, I can. If I find DSing a bad option against a given list, I can just put them on foot and not suffer too badly on mobility vs a rhino. Assault squads in rhinos lose their mobility as soon as that rhino is gone, JP will always be able to move fast. Also, while DSing, you have to sit for a turn and run or shoot.

Also interestingly the BA Drop Pod only holds 10 models, just like the SWs, but not like Vanillas.

Apparently all the chalices of blood and wolf pelts take up a bit of space.

Try taking 5 man assault squads with a flamer in a las/tl-plas razorback for 160pts. Makes a nice scoring unit.

Take 2-3 of those, 3 baal preds, 2-3 vindicators. Makes a solid core of an army.

I'm going to try this someday:

Reclusiarch
15 DC w/2xpf/1xpw
LRC w/mm

2x 5man assault squad w/flamer/Razorback w/las/tl-plas

3x baal preds w/ac/hb sponsons
2x vindi's w/dozer blade

Furioso Librarian Dreadnough w/magna grapple

If your going to deep strike use packs of course..


If your on the table.. take Rhino's..

1st turn able to move 18"..

2nd Turn move 12" get out and fire..

Or.. set in your transport and get out and assault the next turn, but usually after 18" flat outs your close enough in the first place.

They are still no grey hunters though that get to rapid fire, then counter attack with 2 weapons.

Surtur wrote:

I prefer JP. If I want to deep strike them, I can. If I find DSing a bad option against a given list, I can just put them on foot and not suffer too badly on mobility vs a rhino.

In a completely open plain, no they don't suffer much mobility. But If you need to go around the corner of that building, around your own units/enemy units, CC fights then you want that jump squad. Only BA rhino's outspeed them, as jump packs are normally faster than a standard rhino (12"+d6" vs 12" move)

You can also mix the two... Rhinos can drive to screen Jump Packs. Of course this tends to ignore the benefits of spamming in 40K lists, but I used it to some success last time I played my BAs (before the WD nerf).

Jihallah wrote:

Surtur wrote:

I prefer JP. If I want to deep strike them, I can. If I find DSing a bad option against a given list, I can just put them on foot and not suffer too badly on mobility vs a rhino.

In a completely open plain, no they don't suffer much mobility. But If you need to go around the corner of that building, around your own units/enemy units, CC fights then you want that jump squad. Only BA rhino's outspeed them, as jump packs are normally faster than a standard rhino (12"+d6" vs 12" move)

I hear rhinos go through everything.