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Complete TFG idea...that has probably been though of before.

Can you walk two units around a board...moving one at a time so every time they end movement they are inside each other but are still maintaining coherency?...thus giving them a cover save no matter where they are.

Works for hordes?

ductvader wrote:Complete TFG idea...that has probably been though of before.

Can you walk two units around a board...moving one at a time so every time they end movement they are inside each other but are still maintaining coherency?...thus giving them a cover save no matter where they are.

Works for hordes?

Yes, but it is close to impossible.

mhmm...but two squads of infiltrating genestealers might benefit...then add the FnP...

I can see how it would be very difficult though.

it would be exceedingly difficult to do properly

I assume you are deploying like a squished X with the left bottom and right top being one unit, and the others being the other unit.

if you had exactly 50% of each unit on each side, you would get cover from directly in front of you but shots from the slightest angle would likely "see" an extra guy in the center, negating the cover. As soon as you lost a guy, cover would vanish anyway, so you are using complex movement and formations to maybe get one cover save from one shooting attack. as soon as you lose one model you have 2 units in the open basically instead of 1 in the open and one in cover

kind of stupid, you are better off doing it like everyone else.

no no no like

one units takes up a circle and are spread out into anti template formation...insert other unit into spaces of first unit

ductvader wrote:no no no like

one units takes up a circle and are spread out into anti template formation...insert other unit into spaces of first unit

that would make it a nightmare to count up what units are obscured and what aren't, especially if they are painted the same.

same idea though, you have half the models from unit A standing in front of unit B and half behind, as soon as you lose a model from unit A, unit b loses the cover save (if they had it to begin with which is pretty unlikely)

My friend is a WAAC warhammer player and he does the interlacing of squads to grant both of them cover saves. It took a boycott of us playing him for him to stop. It if the TFG move of the decade but RAW it works

Covered a couple hundred times, it's called checkerboarding. It's a TFG move and if your group plays by INAT it's cover stating the unit with a model closest to the firing unit doesn't gain cover.

Volkov wrote:My friend is a WAAC warhammer player and he does the interlacing of squads to grant both of them cover saves. It took a boycott of us playing him for him to stop. It if the TFG move of the decade but RAW it works

the problem is, it doesn't work like that

in order to do it, each guy must be obscured by one, and only one model from most angles, if you are obscured by two, one from the other squad isn't, so they lose cover, and visa versa, as soon as you lose a model from either squad, the opposite loses his cover.

see:

red squad would only have cover from enemies shooting from the blue "triangle of cover" firing from the slightest angle and you lose the cover, adjust the placement of the models and the blue triangle might move, but it doesn't grow, kill a single model, no matter how big the squad is, and now 49% of your models are obscured, and you lose the cover. pull your ranks in more with fatter scattered formation and you probably lose the cover entirely, on top of all that you are halfing the spacing of your models making them template fodder, any ordnance weapon is going to ignore that cover save and take huge chunks out of the formation.

Moving the units is the hard part.

You have to move one unit at a time and you can't move through another model. not sure how this is pulled off without leaving the unit stationary.

The problem I see with can be summerised this way

Hmmmmm. Pie, I like Pie, but it does not like me.

kronk wrote:Moving the units is the hard part.

You have to move one unit at a time and you can't move through another model. not sure how this is pulled off without leaving the unit stationary.

I would assume you reverse the "checkerboard" each move since you can't move one model from one unit then one from the other which should cost you 1-2" of move each turn...

also wouldn't your opponent gain a cover save from your shooting as well?

Ah. You move them diagonally. I see, now.

This IS possible and very hard.... but I'd let you attempt it. I mean 2 units that are completely limiting their movement to stay in such a formation would make it easy to avoid. AND I would always get a cover save from your shooting. AND if I assault I will get two units.....

Sure you can do it.

ductvader wrote:mhmm...but two squads of infiltrating genestealers might benefit...then add the FnP...

I can see how it would be very difficult though.

It depends on the size of the individual models, also, all the shooter has to do is put a blast marker over the base of an unobstructed target or shoot normal weapons at the unit they can see (there is always going to be someone you can see). But if you can get the blast marker over an unobstructed target then there will be no cover saves for all models under that blast marker.

Things like genestealers and hormagaunts and ork boys...don't need to shoot as much as they do need surviving

Of course, I would ensure you followed the rules, making you move each model individually, thus dragging out the game for you as I just flamer your blob to death.

Haha...I would do the same.

Trade flamer for Incinerator though...

You are ONE Ordinance weapon away from having 2 units being Pinned, thats ok with me.

Anpu42 wrote:You are ONE Ordinance weapon away from having 2 units being Pinned, thats ok with me.

</Nitpick> ONE Ordnance Barrage weapon</nitpick>

ductvader wrote:Things like genestealers and hormagaunts and ork boys...don't need to shoot as much as they do need surviving

Way I see it though, is your losing movement to go through this ridicilous formation, giving me more shooting time, and that totally negates the cover save you are going to be getting from a fraction of my shooting.

Flying units have no movement penalties (See: Destroyers or Assault Marines).

Gwar! wrote:Of course, I would ensure you followed the rules, making you move each model individually, thus dragging out the game for you as I just flamer your blob to death.

god i'd love to drop pod my Dreadnought and get 12-15 hits from a Twin Linked heavy flamer and another heavy flamer on the other arm!? oh god, lots of dead mans, two squads running away... so sehxy.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Flying units have no movement penalties (See: Destroyers or Assault Marines).

Hmm..... I didn't realize that 'flying' units could claim cover....

They just have to be non-MC and non-vehicle to claim the 50% cover save, I believe.

Harkainos wrote:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Flying units have no movement penalties (See: Destroyers or Assault Marines).

Hmm..... I didn't realize that 'flying' units could claim cover....

Oh hai, welcome to 5th edition.

Welcome to 40k, you mean. Whether a unit is "flying" (I presume you mean a skimmer, jump infantry, or jetbike) has had no bearing on whether it has cover for at least three editions of the rules.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:They just have to be non-MC and non-vehicle to claim the 50% cover save, I believe.

Yup.

Grundz, your pic doesn't work that way. If you see a blue model, by looking between two red models, then the blue model is considered obscured, whether it is physically obscured or not.


Harkainos: Why would you think they couldn't get cover? Unless you are alluding to apoc flyer units... then I have no clue. But things like gargoyles can get cover saves.

It's so obviously total BS that you just tell your opponent it ain't gonna happen. It's not like it's ambiguous, how can shooting at two groups of the enemy give them both cover from incoming fire? There is no logical explanation for why this could be possible.

Shinkaze wrote:
It's so obviously total BS that you just tell your opponent it ain't gonna happen. It's not like it's ambiguous...

The rules quite obviously allow it to happen. It's not like it's ambiguous...

I think gap-based cup style formations pose a much bigger problem than the standard interlacing setup people think of. Still not great, but at least they can be moved efficiently and straight.