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Im trying to clear this up is Cypher a traitor marine or just a renegade still loyal to the emprah?

that's the whole point
its been deliberately not revealed so as to keep the mistery going
some say he arrives at a flash point to increase imperial resistance
others say he is the flash point
no one knows for sure
mystery continued
woo ha ha ha ha

definitly a mystery thanks

The old codex of chaos and imperial guard 2nd and 3rd edition had Cypher as a HQ choice. I wish they would bring him back as a character.

If you want to know more read "Descent of angels" and "Fallen angels" from the H.H. series. It's a little complicated to put it all on here.

The truth of Cypher: He's actually an Alpha Legion plant that will eventually make his way back to Terra to resurrect the Starbucks brand, hence all the green and white.

Hid chaos corruption of homeworld from imperium and sided against his primarch. That would be heretic/traitor. The HH books go into the what the title of lord cypher means to the chapter. Nothing about what happens after. Space wolf books has Ragnar running into some DA going after a fallen. Alot of them were not even astartes as they were to old to recieve the geneseed when the first legion found Caliban.

My take is(to quote what has already been written):
"...while El'Jonson had moved through the Warp towards Terra to join the defence of the Imperial Palace, he had moved at what was believed to have been a deliberately slow pace; a pace slow enough to determine who the true winner of the conflict would be before committing his forces. In other words, Astelan(a leader of the Fallen) believed that El'Jonson would not have hesitated to join Horus if it had seemed that he would have been the ultimate victor in the Heresy. Why else would the Lion, a man renowned for his strategic brilliance and speed of attack, have waited so long before leading troops to Terra? Astelan believed that by attacking his fleet, the Dark Angels stationed on Caliban were doing the work of the Emperor".
That's my take on it. I tried to write it in my own way, but failed.

I think they were both Loyalists (at least at first), each thought the other has turned to chaos, and attacked with tragic consequences. The losing survivors being dragged in to the warp has parallels with the Thousand Sons, a submission born of desperation.

I prefer to think of him as a symbol of the Dark Angels' status as a chapter. While they remain the Unforgiven, he will roam the galaxy, threatening to expose them. Think of him as a tiny Chaos God, one whose very existence relies on the DA's knowledge that they are still impure.

I believe that Cypher is not a traitor. He causes Imperial worlds to become more resistant to threats. Whether that is intentional or not, I don't know. But because of what he has done, I think he is still loyal

I think he is still loyal and he was drove out the imperium and branded a traitor like the Soul Drinkers.

I think he's still loyal but not in the eyes of many unfortunatley

Isn't he the one who supposedly is trying to infiltate terra and either stab the emprah to deth or stab him to life?

ginger_nid_dude wrote:Isn't he the one who supposedly is trying to infiltate terra and either stab the emprah to deth or stab him to life?

Between life-stabbing and death-stabbing, i think there will be much stabbing either way. All that being said, I have an odd point to bring up on Cypher...

I don't think he's Luther anymore... Luther was too old to have all the requisite parts installed in order to live as long as Cypher has been wandering around the galaxy. I still vote that he's actually Alpha Legion, despite his DA beginnings.

Like has been said above, it's one of those deliberately ambiguous things meant to get & keep you thinking about 40K. Is Mephiston stronger than the other marines or has he been mutated by chaos? Does the golden throne keep the emperor alive or is it stopping him from entering the warp and becoming a god that will help humanity? Do the Space Wolves fangs grow that long for real or are they just wearing cheap novelty fangs because they think it's funny?

I just read in another post where in one of the Horus Heresy books. (cant remeber which) It was proposed that the Man on the Golden Thrones really Horus. So could Cypher know this and wanna get to stabbing?

DA's Forever wrote:I just read in another post where in one of the Horus Heresy books. (cant remeber which) It was proposed that the Man on the Golden Thrones really Horus. So could Cypher know this and wanna get to stabbing?

seriously which book did this come from?
that would be genius

"my my emprah what a big chip on your shoulder?"

"all the better to destroy the galaxy with"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dronze wrote:

ginger_nid_dude wrote:Isn't he the one who supposedly is trying to infiltate terra and either stab the emprah to deth or stab him to life?

Between life-stabbing and death-stabbing, i think there will be much stabbing either way. All that being said, I have an odd point to bring up on Cypher...

I don't think he's Luther anymore... Luther was too old to have all the requisite parts installed in order to live as long as Cypher has been wandering around the galaxy. I still vote that he's actually Alpha Legion, despite his DA beginnings.

where did this Alpha legion thing come from?

shakey787= wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dronze wrote:

ginger_nid_dude wrote:Isn't he the one who supposedly is trying to infiltate terra and either stab the emprah to deth or stab him to life?

Between life-stabbing and death-stabbing, i think there will be much stabbing either way. All that being said, I have an odd point to bring up on Cypher...

I don't think he's Luther anymore... Luther was too old to have all the requisite parts installed in order to live as long as Cypher has been wandering around the galaxy. I still vote that he's actually Alpha Legion, despite his DA beginnings.

where did this Alpha legion thing come from?

personal theory....

jesus really thats some serious speculation, but i like it as a theory it would be a good twist that he had been recruited into alpha. it'd make a good book

Luther is locked up in the Rock isnt he ?

yes he is

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Luther

DA's Forever wrote:I just read in another post where in one of the Horus Heresy books. (cant remeber which) It was proposed that the Man on the Golden Thrones really Horus. So could Cypher know this and wanna get to stabbing?

I don't know about it popping up in the Horus Heresy books (would seem unlikely, since they haven't got that far through the story yet) but the Horus on the throne theory has been wandering the internet for years now... the original idea was that Dorn got a little confused and grabbed the wrong body, possibly after Abaddon had been in, nabbed Horus' glove, and swapped the Emperor's and Horus' armour. Seems unlikely that Dorn, Guilliman, and any of the other Primarchs involved in the aftermath and the building of the Golden Throne would have all been unable to tell the difference between Horus and his daddy, though.

Or that Abaddon would have had enough time to swap the armor out, etc.

And for that matter, how would Cypher know? The Dark Angels weren't present at the Battle for Terra.