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Had someone cast Vaul's Unmaking on Valkia today, which got me thinking.

Her armour grants her a 3+ armour save and reduces the strength of attacks against her by 1. If it's hit by Vaul's Unmaking it becomes a mundane version of what it was. Does it still give a mundane armour bonus of 3+? Is it heavy armour? Chaos armour? Is it gone altogether, since there's no mundane equivalent?

Hmm good question. I guess the magic effect is that is reduces the enemies strength, and the armour alltogether gives a 3+ save. So I think only the reduce strength effect are emoved. Anyone disagrees? I'm not sure about what happens.

It has a "mundane" armour save of 3+ and reduces the strength of attacks.

This seems reasonable to me, as the alternative is entirely removing the save!

Sometimes in the extended rules section of the character listing they will expand on what exactly the item is....

For example:

Tyrion has the Dragon Armour of Aenarion, which goes on to say that besides all the bonuses it adds (including a 1+ save which is much better than regular dragon armour) that it still functions as regular dragon armour.

Granted, its obvious in the title of his armour that it is in fact dragon armour, but if it were to have been hit by a Vaul's Unmaking, the save would be a 5+ as the armour would become mundane dragon armour.

Now I do not know if this is the case with Valkia, as I do not have the WoC book on me, and could not look up the exact rules on her armour (if there are any to begin with).

If it does talk about it being a better version of Chaos Armour, then vaul's unmaking would return it to the 4+ chaos armour. If it does not, then ya, I would have to go with what Nosferatu said.

**It certainly would not negate the save, as the spell can only negate magical effects not remove the item altogether**

I haven't looked at Valkia's entry in a while, but iirc it doesn't say that it is any specific type of armor. I'll have to check on that when I get home.

I don't, however, think that the armor would reduce the strength of the attacks made against her. That to me would be a magical property of the armor. You would simply have the mundane armor save of 3+.

**edit**

I just looked at her codex entry and all it says is that it confers a 3+ save and reduces the strength of any attacks against her by 1 to a minimum of 1. There is no mention of the type armor.

In a related question, how does Vaul's Unmaking affect the generic 1+/2+ 'Can't be increased further' armors, then? (ie, Empire's Armor of Meteoric Iron, DE's Armor of Darkness, etc).

Presumably, they're Magical-ness provides the superior yet un-augmentable saves.

To the original question, I don't think "mundane" armor can reduce the strength of attacks... so it would just be a 3+ save.

For "can't be increased further" armor, I don't see why that matters? Vaul's Unmaking isn't increasing it, just making in mundane... so if it's listed as a type of "light armor" it would only give a 6+ save, if a type of "heavy armor" a 5+ save, and if not listed as any type... it's the same problem as the original question, so I'd say it gets it's save.

I might not be understanding the question, though!

That is the question

Some of the Magical items do not say what they are.
The dark elf Armour of darkness always has a save of 1+, it does not say if it is heavy armour or not because theres no need as its always a 1+.
So would it completely destroy it, or as it has no mundane version does the spell just not work?

Though it says items like talismans and scrolls etc will be rendered useless. Is that because they have no mundane type, if so would that just completely destroy armour/weapons which have no type.

I would just say you would need to agree with your opponent what would happen.

That last one sounds fair. If someone got that spell off on you against your Armour of Meteoric Iron or Armour of Darkness, I'd suggest making it heavy armour. They've already made you suck significantly more than you did a minute ago, so why push it, eh?

Meteoric Iron I would say is Full plate

But you don't really know what sort of armor it really is unless it says in its entry. I would simply play it as whatever armor save it has been given in the entry.

@Infreak - that's the thing, though - the improved save _is_ the magical property of it. The only 1+ unimprovable armor save that has any other description in it is the Armor of Caledor which says it behaves like Dragon Armor asides from the 2+ save.

I wouldn't mind, as a general rule, that the 1+ armors become whatever best "mundane" armor your normal troops are allowed to have (so full plate for Empire, Gromril for Dwarfs, Heavy for anyone without something special), OR as a generic 4+, but it would seem daft to let the regular armor value remain. Granted, if you're casting Vaul's Unmaking, you've likely better choices to affect with the spell.

The solution you've proposed does make more sense Jin.