Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so this is the 'Ard Boyz list I've been working on. There are some a few issues with it which i will go over at the end. For right now it seems pretty solid. I'm looking for you all to poke holes in it and possibly help me iron it out after the hole pokage.

Inquisitor Lord: 3x mystics, Hood, Bolter, Targeter. 85 pts

CCS: Officer of the Fleet, Medic, 3x plasma, plasma pistol. 220 pts
Chimera: Hull Heavy Flamer

PBS: 9 psykers. 165 pts
Chimera: Hull Heavy Flamer

Vets: 3x Melta. 155 pts
Chimera: Hull Heavy Flamer

Vets: 3x Melta. 155 pts
Chimera: Hull Heavy Flamer

Vets: 3x Plasma. 170 pts
Chimera: Hull Heavy Flamer

Vets: 3x Melta. 100 pts
Valkyrie: Rocket Pods. 130

Vets: 3x Melta. 100 pts
Valkyrie: Rocket Pods. 130

Bane Wolf: Smoke, Hull Heavy Flamer. 135 pts

Manticore: 160 pts

2x Demolisher: 330 pts

2x Executioner: Plasma Sponsons. 460 pts

Total= 2495 pts, 13 pieces of armour, 19 kill points

Ok here are the issues I have.

First off its a heck of alot of kill points, but there isn't a whole lot I can do about that.

Secondly, I originally intended to buy a chimera for the inquisitor, unfortunately I ran out of points (original plan was to buy one for one of the melta vets that will be mounted in a valk and give it to the inquisitor) I need to find a fix for that.

I don't have many scoring units, and the ones i do have are driving headlong into enemy lines. Before i added the plasma vets i was trying to get in a platoon, but i don't want anyone not to have a chimera, once again I ran out of points so settled for the plasma vets. My thought with them is to hold them back for home objectives, or even place them in reserve.

I wanted to run 4 Russes and be able to really cause some damage. The plan is to send the demolisher's forward a bit with the chimeras, having the executioners sit back and shoot. I really like running all that AV14, and the ability to have essentially 2 rounds of smoke rocks. Downsides are glancing hits can now kill um and 10 plasma cannon shots at one target seems like overkill. Why can't we have target locks!

Basic theme of this list is, tanks kill guys, guys kill tanks. My only real fear is squadrons of vanquishers. anyways Let me know what you think and please any advice would be much welcome.

First of all, I think you really want 6 units of veterans in a game this size. This is an obvious thing to do before squadronning super-expensive leman russes. The demolisher squadron, I can understand - simple, not too horribly expensive. But 2 executioners w/sponsons? Is there any unit in the game that requires 10 PC shots to kill? Huge point sink IMO.

I'd scrap one executioner, buy one more veteran unit in a chimera, and buy a chimera for a squad that's riding in a valkyrie. You can then deploy the inquisitor in a chimera or valkyrie depending on the game.

I think you'd have enough points spare to put a multimelta on the banewolf - a winning combination IMO. Remember that the chem cannon is a defensive weapon, so you can move 12" and unleash both at an armoured infantry unit.

Apart from that, you might be advised to swap the valkyries/banewolf for vendettas. I know it's very cookie-cutter, but seems like a huge majority of the armies you expect to play will be chock full of tanks. You've got a fair few heavy flamers and ordnance templates already, but for all your meltaguns you don't really have any long-range tankbusters except the manticore.

Hope that helps, good luck in the tournament.

I know melta vets in valks are gold, how effective are melta vets in chimeras? One of my thoughts to free up points is to turn 3 of the vets into a platoon, give the pcs 4 meltas and the squads gl/ac all in chimeras. Park the regulars in the back as objective getters and make the pcs my only melta chimera. I could change my ccs to meltas and that gets me 2. What are your thoughts on this? While we are at it what if i did 2 platoons and put both pcs with meltas in the valks. 4 bs3 meltas average the same as 3 bs4.

So my current thought would look like this:

ccs: 4x melta, chimera

platoons
2xpcs: 4x melta, one buys a chimera for the inquisitor
4x squads: gl/ac, chimera

Or is this the wrong direction?

As for the executioners.... Something inside of me (most likely its that stupid part of my brain) doesn't like miss matching russes in squadrons, there is something comforting about knowing whatever I shoot with the executioners is gona die.. no questions asked. (those 10 shots have a good chance of killing anything up to av12) As i stated though it seems like major overkill and alot of points so I'm torn. I'm not dismissing this issue but its something i want to come back to after looking at other parts of my force. Another nugget to think about is i have access to one more russ.

I really don't want to do vendettas. I love rocket pods, and they have served me well. Saying all that, I see your point, so once again i'm torn.

Help me pick this apart a bit.

First round Tank hunting capability with the posted list:

Executioners: can tear up av12 and lower
Demolishers: only have 24" but unless I'm trying to shoot tanks in the back row, the demolishers should have range after their first move. Was thinking of throwing las on them for first round hunting.
Chimeras: 15 s6 shots at 36" I can pop rhinos and trucks but thats about it.
The vets in valks: have a good chance of a first round kill after scout moves.
Manticore: obvious
PBS: can shoot off a s9 shot round one

It seems like alot but i realize alot of it depends on drift and alot depends on lower strength weapons.

Thoughts?

The PBS is a fun unit to use but I think you will find it unreliable for an ard boyz tourny. It could be turned into a vet squad with plas for the same points to give you another scoring unit. And lets admit it guard elites are not the best.

Have you been geting any decent use out of the melta squads in chims? They seem to be charging right into the enemy if you are. Consider giving them shotguns so they can kill a little more and get the charge in.

1/5th of your list is 2 executioners in a squadron that will likely be the #2 target right after your valks have either died or dropped off their payload.

I am in the same boat as you in the vendetta group, my meltas are killing tanks. let my valk shoot something squishier. Usually what was in the tank.

Lorne wrote:The PBS is a fun unit to use but I think you will find it unreliable for an ard boyz tourny. It could be turned into a vet squad with plas for the same points to give you another scoring unit. And lets admit it guard elites are not the best.

I was curious about this, i haven't used them yet and i plan to make them a staple of my RTTs 1850. But for ard boys with all that anti psyker around, and only being ld9 im wondering how effective they really are going to be. Anyone out there have any experience with them?

Have you been geting any decent use out of the melta squads in chims?

I have had great success with the melta vets in valks, but again i haven't tried them in chimeras yet. Ive seen many a list online that includes them, but im curious (like with the pbs) does anyone have any experience with them?

1/5th of your list is 2 executioners in a squadron that will likely be the #2 target right after your valks have either died or dropped off their payload.

I'm hoping to scare the hell out of people by rushing at them with 3-4 chimeras, 2 valks, a bane wolf, and 2 demolishers. They want to shoot the executioners, but would be silly to ignore all of the other tanks that are going to be in their face. A big part of my list design revolved around fielding 4-5 russes. I want that av14 to draw fire while the rest of my list does the work. Here is an off the wall question for you, would trying to put in a 3rd demolisher in the squad be a poor idea? Also am i really as crazy as everyone is saying for trying to field 2 executioners? With 2 rounds of smoke to keep um semi safe in the beginning rounds, if i can keep them up they could cause some havoc in the later turns.

Why the heck are you using bane wolf?The most useless tank in the game!

Correct me by telling me why they are good

Bane Wolf FAQ: Move 12" drop a 2+ poisoned AP 3 template (its defensive, so it can be fired in the go) on a transport something else just popped. That's alot of dead MEQ's for 130 points

Yea, but then you are within 7" of your opponent and getting hit by any number of nasty things. I would rather take a Hellhound.

I prefer the hellhound for the range but that chem cannon is damn sexy. I still have it swappable so I can decide what I want to do with my helly.

Chem cannon is only one shot right?No blast,just a single shot right?

Nope it is a flamer template just you don't get the 12" range like the hellhound.

chem cannon is a flame template, in 2 1500 pt games ive killed 2 squads of chaos marines and at least 15 sisters.

Say you line up right you blanket a squad with a heavy flamer and a chem flamer template. basically whatever you hit is dead unless you roll 1s to wound. Its a fast vehicle so it can scoot 18 inches and pop smoke, or 12 and fire all its weapons. If i haven't given myself something for it to flame by the end of turn 2 Ive played it wrong.

someone suggested putting a hull melta on it so it can pop its own tanks, then flame the next round. Not sure about that one yet. but it seems fun.

Ok so i have been working on my 'ard boyz list. Initially i was running alot of vet squads with melta in chimeras and valks. After much game play I have found that the melta chimeras don't do much all game and the ones in the valks are kinda hit or miss, then they die (as expected). So with that in mind I started trying to figure out how i could make this list better.

Step One: Drop my Inquisitor with mystics. His hood was great, but in 7 games the mystics only got to act twice and both attempts the 4d6 came up short. Yes it was a great deterrent but it ultimately ended up just making people deep strike away from him, laughing the whole time. I think the missing hood will hurt a bit, but the extra 85 pts will help the rest of my list.

Step Two: Turn all of my vets into regular guardsmen. This saved me enough points to add a third russ and another scoring unit in a chimera, putting me up to 15 pieces of armour, 6 scoring units.

So I wasn't sure what to make my new found russ, but this is what i came up with.


CCS - 220 pts
3x plasma, medic, Master of the Fleet, plas pistol for the boss
Chimera with hull flamer

PBS - 165 pts
9x psykers, overseer
Chimera with hull flamer

Platoon - 280 pts
PCS: 4x melta, rides in valk
Squad 1: Chimera with hull flamer
Squad 2: Chimera with hull flamer

Platoon - 280 pts
PCS: 4x melta, rides in valk
Squad 3: Chimera with hull flamer
Squad 4: Chimera with hull flamer

Bane wolf - 135 pts
Hull flamer, smoke

Valkyrie - 130 pts
Pods

Valkyrie - 130 pts
Pods

Manticore - 160 pts

LR Demolisher squadron - 495 pts
3x Demolishers

LR Executioner squadron - 460 pts
2x Executioners, plasma sponsons

2455 pts 19 kill points 15 pieces of armour

This list is by no means ready for combat, that third demolisher doesn't have to be a demolisher, the infantry squads have no special or heavy weapons and i have 45 pts left. Im curious to know what you all think of the list, and what you would do to flesh it out.

I can say one thing though, Ive asked for feedback on my older list, and the one thing everyone always says is "drop the executioners they are too expensive." To that I say, they have been amazing in game. With the blast template's propensity to scatter, having 10 shots is amazing. Every game they have made their points back (except one where a darn land raider wouldn't die.... Russes don't like thunder hammers for some strange reason.)

pretty good list. Only comments I have is in contrast from your first list, this list is missing quite a bit of meltaguns. I would do the following:

your at +45
move on demolisher to a squadron by itself, this helps with targeting issues.
drop 1 Chimera from somewhere +55

get another CCS with 4 meltas.

I know you dont like having people outside of vehicles, but with this many vehicles you could have the people on foot being shielded by your Russ' basically giving them a vehicle without any weapons.

If you did what I said you would have 2 units without vehicles, my first choice would probably be either a Inf Squad or PBS and one of the PCS'. Not ideal I know, but it gives your other CCS the option of flying across the board dropping its deadly cargo close to a vehicle.

I know you might not like my suggestion, but the CCS is IMO the best unit in the game, and not using one slot is a waste. The option of taking 4 special weapons, and give itself orders is invaluable.

I dont have the 3rd heavy slot i would need to unsquadron.

Okay personally I play with melta vets in chimeras and they work rather well for me. They provide enough of a threat to my opponent that they must be taken care of but if I protect them correctly they can still be a capable scoring unit. I would get rid of the demolisher, don't get me wrong I love the unit but you need to have more long range power so I would put in another manticore and make it a squadron. Then get rid of the banewolf I'm not saying its a bad unit but its the only unit of that kind you have on your list. And when thats taken out you have nothing else that could cause harm like that. Unless you take two don't go for it at all especially in a 2500. For tactics make sure you use your chimeras to block off and protect your more expensive tanks. Also because you got rid of your inquisitor make sure when you deploy you don't give the enemy a open spot to deploy behind your ranks. I castle up pop smoke and make sure they are all in front of my guns and drop demolisher and executioner shells on top of them.

Ive been tweaking around this list, and here is what i played with tonight.

CCS
3x plasma, medic, Master of the Fleet, plas pistol for the boss
Chimera with hull flamer

Elite Inquisitor: Heirophant, 2x mystic

Marbo

Platoon
PCS: 4x melta, rides in valk
Squad 1: autocannon, grenade launcher. Chimera with hull flamer
Squad 2: autocannon, grenade launcher. Chimera with hull flamer

Melta vets x2: Chimera, Hull heavy flamer

Plasma vets: Chimera Hull heavy flamer

Melta vets: ride in valk

Bane wolf
Hull multi melta, smoke

Valkyrie
Pods

Valkyrie
Pods

Manticore

LR Demolisher squadron
2x Demolishers 2x las cannons

LR squadron
2x LRBT, 2x las cannons

It played well, but we rolled scenario # 3 and with 45 kill points to give away it was rough. I played orcs and once again the inquisitor wasn't needed. I lost 2 russ's to immobilized results, one due to rough terrain. My volume of fire was awesome, but i had bad dice, and while i ended up almost killing the majority of his army. I couldn't quite finish off the squads. He was running 4 battle wagons with nobs and boys in them, 3 trukks with boys in them, 2 loota squads on foot, and stink rot. He had a kustom force field generator that gave all his vehicles a 4+ cover, and made almost all of them.

Marbo made the first big kill, blowing up a wagon then killing 6 boys. So that was a good trade, 3 pts for 1. Massed tank fire killed another wagon. And me swarming stink rot with 2 guard squads in cc killed him off. Other than that I weapon destroyed all his wagons, took his 20 man nob squad with boss down to 2 guys, one loota squad had 2 guys left and one had 5. and several boys squads were hurt but still kicking.

In the end i gave up 22 kill points and only got 7 back in return. It sucked, but with better dice, and my opponent not making EVERY frickin cover save, i would have done allot better.

I may change the list up yet again, but im curious as to what you all see here. Ill post the refined list tomorrow, but please give some feed back on this one until then. Thanks.

If I am not mistaken the KFF grants a five plus cover say, not a four. Though that could of been a typo on your part? Also the KFF is only a 6" item meaning that in order to get the save the other unit has to have something with in that range. Thus he would have to be packed up in order to get the save for most of his force. Thus you could of pieced mealed him to death before he got to your side.

Well the 3rd mission killed you as I was going to point that out but you have a better understanding of it now. I would work on putting guys in reserve and also getting the MoF for the plus one. Somebody I know is bringing aroudn 100 FNP blood Angles to the tourny if you live in the dallas texas area....

KFF grants "obscured" status to vehicles, which is a 4+ cover save. Its 4+ for vehicles and 5+ for infantry - and shielding vehicles is therefore the primary thing the KFF is good for.

Yeah he was packed together like sardines to get the save. Remember if the mek is in a wagon, you measure from the wagon. That blob took 7 manticore shellings and atleast 5 lascanon hits and he saved them all. It took marbo to blow one up and break up the pack.

You will be facing ork armies like this in Ard boyz but the other thing is just because it isn't as effective now it can make it worthwhile in other games where it can give you the win. Once again I recommend you get rid of the banewolf and get another melta vet chimera to lay the hurt.

Could anybody quote the kff rule because I do not own a ork dex. Not to derail the topic, just asking a question in the topic.