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I am having problems dealing with a mates Eldar list. We play 1500, he has:

2 wraith lords
Avatar
Farseer+warlocks
Banshee's in wave swerpent
Dire avengers in wave serpent
War walker with scatter lasers
Warp spiders

I have:

Mephiston
Dante with sang guard
assault troop with jp
vindicator
2 furry dreads
death company in a razer back

The main problem im having is I cannot take out his wraith lords and avatar. When I try to use Meph's powers, I have to roll 3 dice and more often then not I am failing. I try to take down his wave serpents but even with inferno pistols he makes me roll 2 pen dice and choose lower one, so again very hard to take them down.

We are going to 2000pt and hes adding striking scorpions and wraith guard, I am considering getting 2 thunder hawk gun ships or a sqaud or 2 of land speaders to get the ranged fire power.


Any advice appreciated!

Seeing as your army is Blood Angles this may seem a little crazy but stay back and shoot.

I'm seeing a lot of his point tied up in 2 wraithlords and the avatar i.e. CC killers, the only thing I've ever successfully assaulted the avatar with was poisoned hormagants.

Try taking some snipers or shooty dreadnoughts, as for the rest of the infantry furioso dreadnoughts with blood talons work amazingly well so do Baal Predators scouting with flamestorm cannons (and HBs if the points a low). The Librarians blood lance works pretty well for popping tanks and hes pretty cheap at 125 points with a jump pack, I'm not hugely into any of the BA special characters but Librarians have never really disappointed me.

My experience is pretty limited but it tends to work pretty well for me, I hope that helps

wardance76 wrote:I am having problems dealing with a mates Eldar list. We play 1500, he has:

2 wraith lords
Avatar
Farseer+warlocks
Banshee's in wave swerpent
Dire avengers in wave serpent
War walker with scatter lasers
Warp spiders

I have:

Mephiston
Dante with sang guard
assault troop with jp
vindicator
2 furry dreads
death company in a razer back

The main problem im having is I cannot take out his wraith lords and avatar. When I try to use Meph's powers, I have to roll 3 dice and more often then not I am failing. I try to take down his wave serpents but even with inferno pistols he makes me roll 2 pen dice and choose lower one, so again very hard to take them down.

We are going to 2000pt and hes adding striking scorpions and wraith guard, I am considering getting 2 thunder hawk gun ships or a sqaud or 2 of land speaders to get the ranged fire power.


Any advice appreciated!

Problem #1: Your death company has no chaplain.

The Avatar is only T6 with a 4+ invo, it's best defense is WS10 forces MEQ to hit it in CC on a 5+.

Mathhammer
Death Company with FC against an Avatar: Needs 3 attacks to hit the avatar, 9 attacks to score a wound, and 18 attacks to inflict an unsaved wound. 1 out of 18 attacks will result in a wound meaning it will take a whopping 72 attacks for the DC to kill the Avatar.

Same DC with FC and a Chaplain: 5/9 attacks hit and 5/9 hits wound so 25/81 attacks result in a wound with 12.5 of 81 attacks resulting in an unsaved wound. 1 out of 6.48 attacks will result in a wound meaning 26 attacks from the DC should inflict 4 wounds on the avatar.

Never take DC without an attached chaplain.

Problem #2: At 1,500 points 1/3 of your army is spent on HQ and you only have 2 scoring units.

Dump an HQ. If you're going to take SG you can't dump Dante or else you will only have 1 scoring unit left. That only means 1 thing, you've got to dump Mephiston. He's a good HQ, but you just don't have the points for him. With the left over points you can change the DC's razorback to a Rhino, add a chaplain or Reclusiarch, and increase the squad size of the DC to 9+ a chaplain.

Double post.

Surtur wrote:I'd suggest dropping both HQs actually. Unless you have something specific in mind for either, but even then, drop at least 1. If you keep meph, run him against those MCs he has, 1 hit + FW = dead monster. Or drop him and make one of those furiosos a libby.

You don't have a large troop count. 20 total and they are all assault units that are going to be SITTING around to cap a point. It's utterly misappropriated points. I'd suggest dropping the DC or Sang Guard filling out your unit base. If you keep the DC, consider taking a Furioso out for a DC dread.

You don't have a single Sang Priest. They give furious charge and FNP.

You want to pop those transports and assault what's inside, not see them deploy. If you keep an assault squad near the banshees so that if they get the idea of coming out, you assault them. But if they just stay inside you need a way to force them out. Having one unit pop the transport and another assault what is inside will make the Eldar sad.

I'm with Sutur.
Not enough troops, and DC don't count as troops.
You need a Sang Priest

He can't drop Dante though unless he also drops the Sang Guard, because without Dante they will no longer be a scoring unit.

He can keep sang guard to take on things like LC termies or other well armored units. Aided with a Sang priest, they can horrific. With furious charge and/or sang priest, if they assaulted non THSS terms:

15 attacks hitting on 4+ with rerolls, wound on 3+, they save at 5+.

7.5 hits initially, +3.75 from rerolls=10.75

of the 10.75 hits, 7.17 wounds are inflicted

of the 7.17 wounds, 2.35 saves are made leaving 4.8 wounds on the terms.

That's 5 dead terms without attacks from sang priest, and assuming they passed their moral checks vs Death Mask.

He would have to just adjust the list set up still, but I see them as a highly mobile terminator of sorts. Just say away from as many power weaps as possible.

quick question regarding sang priests- are they IC's? so can they leave/join units at will? More importantly, can they be singled out in CC?

Don't forget that DC are WS5, so they hit the avatar on 4+.

I try to take down his wave serpents but even with inferno pistols he makes me roll 2 pen dice and choose lower one, so again very hard to take them down.

Neither the Wave Serpent energy field, nor the holofield available to falcons or fire prisms works like this.

The energy field on the WS means you can't get a bonus dice to penetrate, and any attacks greater than s8 from the front or sides are reduced to s8.

The holofields on the heavy tanks forces you to roll the damage roll twice (not the penetration roll) and pick the lowest. Note that it is not possible to have both of these fields on the same tank.

Yes Sang Priests are ICs.
I'm running into the problem of finding a good place to put them in a mechanized list outside of fielding Razorbacks.

Cheers
~Volkan

willydstyle wrote:Don't forget that DC are WS5, so they hit the avatar on 4+.

I try to take down his wave serpents but even with inferno pistols he makes me roll 2 pen dice and choose lower one, so again very hard to take them down.

Neither the Wave Serpent energy field, nor the holofield available to falcons or fire prisms works like this.

The energy field on the WS means you can't get a bonus dice to penetrate, and any attacks greater than s8 from the front or sides are reduced to s8.

The holofields on the heavy tanks forces you to roll the damage roll twice (not the penetration roll) and pick the lowest. Note that it is not possible to have both of these fields on the same tank.

Great info here I'll call him up on this.

Also thanks for all the advice guys, Ive decided in the next game I'll drop meph and take more DC and a chaplain. I'll also drop a sang guard and get Sang Priests. I'd still love to try out having 2 stormravens with a sang guard and priest and a furioso dread in each(I'm tempted to buy 2 valkries to try it)

Next game is tonight so I hope to win for the first time...

You don't need more DC. You need more troops who can capture points. If you play an objective based game you're in trouble. DC are expensive. For 10 you can get a tac squad that has special weapons or 10 assault marines who have jump packs or a free rhino. Focus on a better troop base and think of DC as elite choices.

I don't see two troops, just the dire avengers.

I agree with others, you have too many points in HQ's. Vindicator is nice, but only one means it gets targeted ever turn. Unless you go first, you will never get to use it. You would do better to swap it out for a outflanking Baal (if going second) with Flamecannon and Heavy Bolters, or Scouting it to hurt them turn one if you get the frist turn.

DC is nice but I only have one list of 5 in a 2000pt list. All of my others have no DC.

If you want to run Vindicators you need 2-3 so that they can not focus firepower on one tank.

As others have already said, you need more boots on the ground, and you need to have effective target priority.

IMHO the Avatar is just too tough for Mephiston to realistically beat, mainly because he will almost always have a 4+ invulnerable, and I am pretty sure he hits first. Basically, since the Avatar has a very serious invuln, and Mephiston has none, it will be a losing battle for Mephie; not that he needs to worry about ID or anything.

Wraithlord are not particularly effective in CC against infantry, especially S5 Ini5 hits, backed up by a S9 PF sergeant. Meltas are not going to be very cost effective against 3 T8 wounds, so you are better off dropping any meltas in general against an Eldar list like this, especially since Wave serpents take an awful lot of the punch out of most melta shots. Jump packs simply won't offer a competent counter to fast skimmers, while Baal Preds (and Preds in general), being fast vehicles for BA, will offer serious AT against Eldar tanks. A DS Landraider could be a very interesting way to bring in serious firepower against MCs. WL do a pretty good job of opening up any vehicle, so it is debatable whether this tactic could be all that cost effective.

My friend is putting together an army that could deal quite effectively with an Eldar list like this, simply because your opponent is going hybrid. BA will usually have a much harder time against an Eldar Mech force in general, while a hybrid footslogging/mech list offers serious weaknesses, mainly in the mobility front. You can take out either the footslogging element, or just hunt down tanks, either way you'll only need to focus on one part to win most games. Make sure to hit hard when you hit at all, primarily by committing 75%+ of your forces to a weak section of the Eldar army.

As I expect most of your infantry to have FNP, I wouldn't worry much at all about the Warwalkers, besides the fact that they will do pretty well against AV11 (side armor) of any predator chassis. All you will need to take the Warwalkers down at any rate, will be a 5 man squad of assault marines with a PF in the mix. S5 will wreck Walker face, mainly because you are also going to be hitting first with Ini5, via FC.

Wrexasaur wrote:As others have already said, you need more boots on the ground, and you need to have effective target priority.

IMHO the Avatar is just too tough for Mephiston to realistically beat, mainly because he will almost always have a 4+ invulnerable, and I am pretty sure he hits first. Basically, since the Avatar has a very serious invuln, and Mephiston has none, it will be a losing battle for Mephie; not that he needs to worry about ID or anything.

Wraithlord are not particularly effective in CC against infantry, especially S5 Ini5 hits, backed up by a S9 PF sergeant. Meltas are not going to be very cost effective against 3 T8 wounds, so you are better off dropping any meltas in general against an Eldar list like this, especially since Wave serpents take an awful lot of the punch out of most melta shots. Jump packs simply won't offer a competent counter to fast skimmers, while Baal Preds (and Preds in general), being fast vehicles for BA, will offer serious AT against Eldar tanks. A DS Landraider could be a very interesting way to bring in serious firepower against MCs. WL do a pretty good job of opening up any vehicle, so it is debatable whether this tactic could be all that cost effective.

My friend is putting together an army that could deal quite effectively with an Eldar list like this, simply because your opponent is going hybrid. BA will usually have a much harder time against an Eldar Mech force in general, while a hybrid footslogging/mech list offers serious weaknesses, mainly in the mobility front. You can take out either the footslogging element, or just hunt down tanks, either way you'll only need to focus on one part to win most games. Make sure to hit hard when you hit at all, primarily by committing 75%+ of your forces to a weak section of the Eldar army.

As I expect most of your infantry to have FNP, I wouldn't worry much at all about the Warwalkers, besides the fact that they will do pretty well against AV11 (side armor) of any predator chassis. All you will need to take the Warwalkers down at any rate, will be a 5 man squad of assault marines with a PF in the mix. S5 will wreck Walker face, mainly because you are also going to be hitting first with Ini5, via FC.

Thankd for this great advice, I had a game last night and I lost again but I did a whole lot better simply by not rushing into CC and waiting a few turns, just shooting it out. The next game is 2000 pt and hes taking rangers and dark reapers, and I'm taking 2 storm ravens - should be fun.

storm ravens are wounderful, first turn of entry, 18 inches(enough distance to keep distance), shoot 4 guns, move agin, shoot 4 guns, move off board if threatened. especially if they only get a glance, mwahahah soak it, then off the board, ur next turn bring it right back in and repeat (assuming ur game last 5+ turns)

Make sure you check out the date on the last post made in a thread. If it is a topical conversation, as is any one about tactics for particular armies in 40k (as new codexes come out every few years), then posting in a thread more than 3-4 weeks old is generally considered bad form, and most certainly for a thread that is around 4 years old.