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I apologize ahead of time if this question has come up before, but I looked around and didn't see it so here goes. I was facing TFG last Saturday in a tournament for first place. I was running IG and he was doing his usual cheese of Lash sorcerors/zerkers. I ended up tabling him (god that felt good), but a unique situation came up that I think he was misinterpreting for his benefit (big suprise I know). Here's the situation:

I had a veteran squad on the 3rd level of a building holding an objective. He used lash on them and got like 4-5 inches for the distance. I start moving my squad down a level (we both agreed at the beginning of the game that each level was 3 inches) and he started to yell at me. He told me that lash ignores difficult terrain in terms of the movement and therefore my guys should magically move 4-5 inches out from the edge of the terrain (they were on the edge of the 3rd level so they could shoot) and not down the levels. He even showed me the codex entry where it says that it ignores difficult terrain.

I called the tournament judge over and gave him the situation. He personally hated the guy I was playing so he just straight up said it doesn't work that way and I should be moving my guys down the levels. I'll admit I didn't mind the outcome of the ruling at the time, but I guess I would like to have some validation from the community/rules.

While it ignores DT, it does NOT ignore the rules for moving in Ruins, which state you count horizontal and vertical distance seperately towards the total moved. So no, he could NOT move you models out, and the TO rules correctly.

Personally, we tend to play where we ignore terrain heights when lashing. We move things a lateral distance, not counting for moving up hills and whatnot. So I guess we play with TFG's interpretation.

If we were in a tournament we'd probably play differently though as I do remember the rulebook talking about height and measurement. It's just easier to ignore height when moving things and hasn't ever made much of a difference tactically.

I guess a lot of it also depends on if you see lash as being mind control/influence or a telekinetic yank.

Except this is a ruin - so you arent ignoring general terrain heights, where unless the hill is more like a cliff the hypotenuse is *roughly* the same as the longer side, you are ignoring a massive difference.

It ignores DT - it does NOT say it ignores the rules for moving in Ruins, so you don't ignore them.

Ignoring terrain distances when there is a slight hill which is technically a bit longer a move when moved laterally versus along the terrain is completely different than when troops are in a building. You were correct on this one, ignoring DT is totally different from moving up or down floors a ruined building.

You guys played it right, Lash does not ignore rules for moving vertically, etc etc.

However, nobody cares whether this guy is TFG, how cheesy this guys chaos army was, while your tame and uncheesy ig managed to pull a win through by the skin of their teeth. By complaining about it on dakka, you yourself just may very well be, TFG.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:You guys played it right, Lash does not ignore rules for moving vertically, etc etc.

However, nobody cares whether this guy is TFG, how cheesy this guys chaos army was, while your tame and uncheesy ig managed to pull a win through by the skin of their teeth. By complaining about it on dakka, you yourself just may very well be, TFG.

Hear Hear!

The TO in this case ruled 100% Correctly.

As previously noted, the rules for movement up and down in Ruins are separate from and in addition to the rules for moving in difficult terrain. Lash ignores the latter, but not the former.

I’d like to express IGtS’s opinion a bit differently. It’s not so much that no one cares. Lots of people actually do rather enjoy hearing about TFGs getting their just desserts. However, when presenting a rules question, it’s better to do it neutrally. Try to avoid “prejudicing the jury” by telling us which side of the dispute you were on, or that a person making a given argument is cheesy, or a bad person, or whatever. It makes it look like your question is more a plea for sympathy than an inquiry about the rules.

My apologies for the way I worded the post. This is the wrong way to vent frustration and I will amend doing so in the future. I had just been steaming about it all weekend and it got the better of me. I do appreciate the rules clarification however and thanks to all that replied.

You're very welcome, and thanks for taking the criticism so well! Welcome to Dakka!

Might you ignore vertical distances for jump infantry though?

Yes, and you can argue they would take Dangerous terrain tests as well i believe.

You would, as per the ruins rulkes, measure the actual diagonal movement though.