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Got a lot of heavy hitting units, and a lot of repetition.

Shooting for an imperial fists tournament army:

Darnath Lysander

10 Tactical Marines
Power fist, Melta gun, Missle Launcher
Rhino
Hunter-Killer Missle

10 Tactical Marines
Power fist, Melta gun, Missle Launcher
Rhino
Hunter-Killer Missle

10 Tactical Marines
Power fist, Melta gun, Missle Launcher
Rhino
Hunter-Killer Missle

5 Assault Terminators
TH/SS

Land Raider Redeemer
Multi-Melta, Hunter-Killer missle, Extra Armor

Vindicator

Vindicator

Vindicator

Well, built this list to be competitive while staying, semi-fluffy, fluff will not be an issue, it's just what I decided for this army.

Hopefully I can take out the tanks with the hunter killers and have enough pie plates to deal with the rest of the army, the "deathstar" unit will be used to break the back of the enemy by gunning for the enemies largest unit.

The vindicators will hold back behind the rhinos, then as the tactical marines either pop tanks, or mop up infantry, the vindicators will support.

I think this is good for 1,750, 3 large units of infantry in tanks, 3 offensive tanks, and the one the only land raider. Also, the TH/SS terminators seem to be popular.

I'm not a fan of putting PFs on Tac squads, since you really don't want them in assault if you can avoid it.

Aside from that, I like the list overall. I like the hammer unit, even if it winds up wasting Lysander's Bolter Drill

You might as well take a free heavy with the tactical squads... You can always use the bolt pistol for assault/moving.

Lysander is a power house even though assault terminators are better take normal terminators as lysnaders bolter drill works with storm bolters.

Tactical squads are ok with power fists if you keep them in a unit of 10. Its when you combat squad them don't give them power fists. Btw its always best to take the free heavy weapon, though you do really and mostly need to combat squad to make this work. I have found combi weapons on the sgts matching the squads special weapon to be useful.

I'd drop the h-k on the redeemer. The redeemer will be charging forward to get those flamers into range. You can only fire one weapon, which will probably be the multi melta at a tank (more than likely) which means the h-k won't be fired. You could put h-k's on ALL rhinos and do a alpha strike by firing all h-k's at the same target. Btw, I do think the crusader is better here is a article I wrote on my blog: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/01/land-raider-crusader-vs-land-raider.html

Vindicators are fine. Drop the h-k's though. You cannot fire the demolisher cannon and the h-k's and you nearly always want to fire the h-k's. As I said pop them on the rhinos instead.

Alright, changed the Hunter-Killers around to the rhinos, which would have made a world of sense in the first place.

Also, I don't very well intend to make use of the bolter drill, if I am in a land raider, and get a large charge range, bolter drill seems a little useless for the hammer unit. If I come across assault-y units, I will simply charge into them so they don't get the charge bonus, and they get something done. If I come across a shoot-y unit, I will charge it so it cannot shoot, I know that is very narrow-minded, though I believe that taking assault terminators would be better opposed to... changing them to fit into Lysander's special rule.

Also, your blog... seems to lean towards redeemers? I am having trouble understanding your post...

Of course bolter drill is usless for hammer terminators, they have no guns lol. If you're not using lysander to one of his abilities the only other one is stubborn. I cannot see much benefit other than stubborn and perhaps consider dropping him for another HQ choice which can do just as well in combat.

Ah yes, that's a old post. I now favour crusaders, I need to edit that!

Well, I do think Lysander is above a captain for the following reasons:

-+1 wound

-Eternal Warrior

-Master-crafted thunder hammer

-He wrecks any vehicle he touches.

For a measly 25 points, also, it keeps in line with the fluff because... he is... well Lysander.

Also, you just bought me on redeemers, now you wan't me to get a crusader?

Lysander is better profile than a captain; that's true. But what his benefits are is bolter drill (which you're not using) and stubborn. So for that amount of points you may as well get a normal captain as you're not using lysander to full potential.

lol. I found with the redeemer is BBQ's infantry but because of the L.Rs foot print it cannot cover the targets fully and the assault terminators inside may have problems getting out. This also puts the redeemer into melta range. A crusader is anti infantry also but lacks AP but brings more fire power, beauty about this is it can hang back and shoot.

Probably best to proxy and see which one you prefer. I tried both and now going back to crusader

I will try out both land raiders for sure though...

I heavily disagree with your Lysander/Captain statement.

Ok, just an example, obviously nothing like this.

Unit A: 25 points

Has upgrade that impacts certain unit that you do not own.
Much better goodies then Unit B.

Unit B: 20 points

Just a normal guy, decent stats...

Unit A would be a wast because you are not using all of his options?

I'd stick with Lysander if I were you. He wreaks face on anything he touches. Don't forget he's strength 10, and EW means you can eat lascannon/melta shots on him and not risk losing a termie. What else would that extra wound be for?

Stubborn can be a mixed blessing because sometimes you want to run from combat (vs walkers or MC's) but since you've given everything power fists sticking around might not always be the worst option.

Yes, I do consider stubborn more of a downfall then a benefit. Though I guess it can come in handy sometimes. Still though, I like the list (not that I have changed that much, not saying I do not appreciate the input of the dakkites!). I am waiting to see if Mercer's blog can convince me...

I think the list is prety solid. I like the vindicators personally. I would love to see you post up how it does.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:I will try out both land raiders for sure though...

I heavily disagree with your Lysander/Captain statement.

Ok, just an example, obviously nothing like this.

Unit A: 25 points

Has upgrade that impacts certain unit that you do not own.
Much better goodies then Unit B.

Unit B: 20 points

Just a normal guy, decent stats...

Unit A would be a wast because you are not using all of his options?

That's correct however you're missing my point. Your paying more points for unit A because of a special ability that unit has; you're not using it. So what is the point is paying the extra points for a special ability along with increased stats and not using it to your advantage?

Now I'm not saying lysander isn't good because he is but your not using him to full affect or benefit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:I am waiting to see if Mercer's blog can convince me...

What do you want me to convince you on matey?

@Mercer

I know what you're getting at, however I feel that the things that I am getting out of Lysander, are a better value than a captain.

Also, convincing me to switch to a crusader.

here you go: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2010/04/land-raider-analysis-and-tactica.html

Syphonious, Lysander is definitely worth it. Eternal Warrior in itself is worth the extra 25 or w/e points you were talking about. IMO either way you may use Lysander SOMETHING is gonna be wasted, simply they put a good ranged ability on a character meant solely for close combat. He IS fluffy, he IS a beast and you should use him.

Wow, for the first time I just noticed Lysander has eternal warrior rule. Heck yeah I say take him with an ultra-resilient squad of hammer terminators. on top of it your giving them the best transport space marines have.

Why not give them a regular old Land Raider? Only for the regular space marines can it hold 12 models. So you would be able to punch a massive hole in any artillery or transports, then charge the insides!

I just love TL lascannon's because you'll get to use them every turn available, unlike Flamestorm cannons.


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You just don't get frag assault launchers sadly. I always found regular LRs more menacing than their counterparts though.

A crusader can advance 6" and fire everything and weaken units you plan to assault which are bigger than terminator units. A standard land raider doesn't know if it's a transport or anti tank because can move but only fire two weapons and it's either the lascannons or heavy bolter but more importantly you want those terminators moving up close. HOwever blasting tanks apart and then assaulting with the terminators on the survivors is good fun