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OK, another dumb question - sorry.

The rulebook indicates that if a unit is allowed a save normally, it may take one in close assault (discounting things like power fists etc). Maybe it's because I've been looking at this stuff all night and my brain is fuzzing, but - how do you determine what the strength was for calculating if a wound was scored on the "To Wound" chart? It just says in the RB "as with shooting", so do you use the weapon they have equipped or the unit str?

IE, if an Ork Boy (S3) is armed with a big shoota (S5), what was the S of the close combat attack - S3 or S5? Am I to assume he used the Big Shoota like a giant S5 club? Or that he used a Choppa on his back with his S3 arms?

(fixed that big shoota typo)

You do not use the shooting weapon unless it has special rules saying to do so. Normally, it's the strength of the model, in your example, S3. Certain special close combat weapons do provide strength boosts by adding +1 or +2 or doubling/tripling the users strength, these will be noted in the weapon's profile.

Ouze wrote:OK, another dumb question - sorry.

The rulebook indicates that if a unit is allowed a save normally, it may take one in close assault (discounting things like power fists etc). Maybe it's because I've been looking at this stuff all night and my brain is fuzzing, but - how do you determine what the strength was for calculating if a wound was scored on the "To Wound" chart? It just says in the RB "as with shooting", so do you use the weapon they have equipped or the unit str?

IE, if an Ork Boy (S3) is armed with a big shoota (S6), what was the S of the close combat attack - S3 or S6? Am I to assume he used the Big Shoota like a giant S6 club? Or that he used a Choppa on his back with his S3 arms?

You use the strength of the model unless a rule tells you otherwise.

And just for the record, Big Shootas are S5, not S6.

Oops, I sort of mingled 2 questions here. I mean, how do you calculate AP, for determining if they are allowed a save? Re-reading my post, I was confusing as hell. I apologize for that, too. Long night at work.

Generally speaking, models in close combat attack with one of the following-

'Normal' attacks - This is the default close combat attack, and has no AP property. Saves are taken as usual.
'Power weapon' attacks - A specific type of attack, conferred by a power sword/fist/claw/monstrous creature/force weapon. No armour save may be taken, invulnerable saves may be taken.
'Rending' attacks - They work like 'normal' attacks, unless you roll a 6 (or whatever the rending value might be) to wound, in which case tehy work like 'power weapon' attack.
Other - All the wierd, unit specific stuff that has it's own rules.

So essentially, every "normal" close combat attack will allow an armor save, assuming the unit has one?

Ouze wrote:So essentially, every "normal" close combat attack will allow an armor save, assuming the unit has one?

Yes.

AP is NOT used in close combat - look at page 42 (i think) which lists the different types of close combat weapons and their effects.

Remember that CC attacks not having an AP does not make them 'AP -' when it comes to assaulting vehicles either.

nosferatu1001 wrote:AP is NOT used in close combat - look at page 42 (i think) which lists the different types of close combat weapons and their effects.

Though it might make sense of they did...if I had a melta gun...you can be sure that I am going to close range melta some guy in the chest if given the opportunity.

But you arent given the oppurtunity.
Plus you REALLY dont want to wave a melta gun round in CC - your unit really wouldnt appreciate it!

Can't ork burnas do something like this if they dont fire their flamers though?

ductvader wrote:Can't ork burnas do something like this if they dont fire their flamers though?

No, it is nothing like this.

They count as PW if they don't fire.

Yes, but only because the specifially are allowed to, and even then it isnt a straight "AP" swap to CC - instead of an AP5 burna you get to use it as a power weapon, which denies all saves.

Which is why AP doesnt below in CC - its all or nothing

Gwar! wrote:

ductvader wrote:Can't ork burnas do something like this if they dont fire their flamers though?

No, it is nothing like this.

They count as PW if they don't fire.

Well actually its something very much like it. The terminology is different but the method is the same. Which is all I was talking about.

ductvader wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

ductvader wrote:Can't ork burnas do something like this if they dont fire their flamers though?

No, it is nothing like this.

They count as PW if they don't fire.

Well actually its something very much like it. The terminology is different but the method is the same. Which is all I was talking about.

Actually, what you are talking about would be counting the Burnas as S4 AP5 weapons in CC.

Counting as a Power Weapon is nothing like this.

Gwar! wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

ductvader wrote:Can't ork burnas do something like this if they dont fire their flamers though?

No, it is nothing like this.

They count as PW if they don't fire.

Well actually its something very much like it. The terminology is different but the method is the same. Which is all I was talking about.

Actually, what you are talking about would be counting the Burnas as S4 AP5 weapons in CC.

Counting as a Power Weapon is nothing like this.

You're not understanding that I am not debating rules but fluff.

ductvader wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

ductvader wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

ductvader wrote:Can't ork burnas do something like this if they dont fire their flamers though?

No, it is nothing like this.

They count as PW if they don't fire.

Well actually its something very much like it. The terminology is different but the method is the same. Which is all I was talking about.

Actually, what you are talking about would be counting the Burnas as S4 AP5 weapons in CC.

Counting as a Power Weapon is nothing like this.

You're not understanding that I am not debating rules but fluff.

why debate fluff in a rule's forum?

Ha...because this is where the topic popped up...no worries though.