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Topic title. I'd like to have a heavy bolter team or two in my armies, but I've heard that between the autocannon hitting harder and mortars having pinning and other things about HW teams, heavy bolter teams seem really rare. Are they good in any situation?

I would rather field auto cannons. But if you are going on the cheap its not to bad.

Heavy bolters are good for massed firepower against light infantry.

Autocannons, though more expensive and less shooty, are stronger and can be used against heavier infantry, as well as some light tanks

IG heavy bolters suffer from IG BS. Still they're dirt cheap and a good anti horde investment in a friendly game.

"Autocannons, though more expensive and less shooty, are stronger and can be used against heavier infantry, as well as some light tanks "

autocannons cost the same as heavy bolters. Really its up to preference, but considering that most armies bring allot of mech, the ability to penetrate and blow up transports is generally considered superior to a single extra shot.

Yup. I used to pack a HB Squad to every game last edition, but I have rarely used them in this one. AC is just a better choice in almost every scenario I can think of.

Ive Fielded Them Usually In A Heavy Weapons Sqaud With Atleast One Autocannon And Only Against Orks, Nid, Or Dark Eldar Who I Would Play Against Here And There But Most The Time It Was Two Autocannons One Heavy Bolter Not Two Heavy Bolters

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:Ive Fielded Them Usually In A Heavy Weapons Sqaud With Atleast One Autocannon And Only Against Orks, Nid, Or Dark Eldar Who I Would Play Against Here And There But Most The Time It Was Two Autocannons One Heavy Bolter Not Two Heavy Bolters

Mother of god, why every word in capitals?

Autocannons are superior in every way, even for hordes because they can do more than just that. They're more versatile, and can actually do something about MC's and Vehicles.

Just type like that sometime didnt think it was against forum rules buddy and i agree Autocannons are pretty much superior i like the Heavy bolter for that extra shot in a group of Autocannons
Sometimes i just like rolling 9 dice against a big ole group about to storm up on your like even if a Autocannons Str and Ap are better most hordes arent going to be able to take a save after a Heavy bolter round

Field Marshal Wiley wrote:Just type like that sometime didnt think it was against forum rules buddy and i agree Autocannons are pretty much superior i like the Heavy bolter for that extra shot in a group of Autocannons
Sometimes i just like rolling 9 dice against a big ole group about to storm up on your like even if a Autocannons Str and Ap are better most hordes arent going to be able to take a save after a Heavy bolter round

Try to compromise your Every Word Capitalized and your "no grammar, no punctuation, no capital I, final destination"

HB are bad now because they are not cheaper than AC, and AC are about as good vs light inafntry and marines, with better range, and are good against light vehicles.

For Heavy Weapon teams i stick with Auto Cannons.
If im to field heavy bolter , i'll get mine from LRBT sponsons or chimeras.

I would definitely run HB heavy weapons teams as an alternative to a punisher. Other than that, I would probably go auto-cannons, though I could see mixing them up a bit depending on the rest of your army.
Of course, AC heavy weapon teams have on average about as many hits at range as a Hydra, (not counting the HB on the hydra) and can score, but can't move and shoot. So there is that too.
HB's HWTs average 3 wounds on orks, while AC teams average 2.5. AC have the range and better vehicle killing, as well as superior MC killing.
So yea, I would go all AC, now that I have rambled through it.

"Are IG heavy bolter teams useful at all?"

not for me. i go with Autocannons in any choice between the the two.

Here is how i see it.

Heavy Bolter Heavy Weapons Team.
75 pts for 6 wounds , static 36" range , can be locked into combat 3 heavy bolters.

LRBT: 2 Sponsons = 20 pts. 2 heavy bolters.

Now before you scream its not 100% related , i know.
But this is the math i do IF when people dont take sponsons on Leman Russes while taking heavy bolter teams.

I generally agree with you Luna, and have three LRs with HB sponsons glued on to prove it However, I have found that the HBs can be a little bit of a detriment when shooting smaller squads, as it lets the enemy stack AP4 wounds on models he wants to get a save for, and let the ablative boys take the AP3. Sort of a minor point, but sometimes it is better to have separate groups.

Also, the HB teams score, and can't be stunned and one shot along with the battle cannon. However, if one is just looking for more heavy bolters, LR or even better Valks are a great place for them. If you are ever tempted to talk HB teams, probably best to put ACs on them instead.

I tend to use autocannons, but really it's because the Heavy Bolter has always seemed more like a SM thing and the autocannon more like an IG thing.

Yeah, like everyone's said, autocannons are better.

Against T4, autocannons are 5/6 as effective as HBs. Not much difference right?

Against anything over T4, and ALL vehicles, AC is blatantly superior.

T3 is the only target where HBs are superior. The problem with this, is that the only armies that field much T3 - eldar, tyranids, IG, tend to also field tons of units that are more vulnerable to autocannons - AV10-12 vehicles, monstrous creatures, etc.

Unless you know for a fact you're facing foot IG or Eldar, take the autocannons. Every time.

the only armies that field much T3 - eldar, tyranids, IG

Someone forgot about DE, Tau and SoB... doesn't really weaken the point though.

One thing I have to add: Choose one of the following 75pts units for anti horde:
-autocannon hws
-heavy bolter hws
-Griffon
-Hydra

As I said before, it might depend on how friendly/competitive you want to play.

Yar, I did forget about those, except for tau they are far less common than most, to be fair. The point remains that they all have plenty of AV10-12 vehicles, where the autocannon really shines, and the HB is poor to useless.

It's also worth noting, that against T3 guard lasguns aren't too terrible in quantity, so the need for support weapons isn't that urgent.

Also, one issue with Sisters and DE is that Str7 autokills all of their characters (Inqs, Cannoness, Archon, Priests, etc.) Along with their light vehicles, this can be a bit of a boon, at least making them make tougher choices in wound allocation, and at best smacking down hard characters.

If you are thinking of taking Heavy Bolter HWTs to deal with hordes

....

take some flamers instead and use autocannons anyway.

Upon further thinking, I've realized I have a Leman Russ with triple heavy bolters anyway, so my HB need is pretty much filled.

...

I just dig how HB teams look. But it's all good.

Quick question before I leave this alone: how good are IG missile launcher teams? Or should I just relegate my HW teams to being autocannon/lascannon only? The autocannons would of course deal with infantry/light tanks and the lascannons for the heavy tanks, but does the missile launcher have any place?

so, if you look at the math, you quickly see that both autocannons and heavy bolters are terrible against vehicles and heavy infantry (if you want to claim otherwise, post the maths). This means that you have to compare them against light infantry. In this case, the heavy bolter is clearly superior.

If you want to kill vehicles, don't look at HWSs

Compared to the mortar on the other hand, I honestly would rather take the mortar as it has the ability do do MORE damage to light infantry, and has pinning, and can ignore cover and has no LOS restrictions. The one thing I do like heavy bolters for (and the reason I keep them on my vehicles) is to pick off that last model or two in the squad that a mortar is going to have trouble finishing off to actually claim the kill point.

Of course, if you're big into bringing tanks to kill light infantry, then yes, add sponsons rather than HB HWS. If you're not, then they are A way of handling enemy light infantry. Remember, though, that there are a lot of ways to kill light infantry, many of which do the job better or for better points efficiency, and so I'd only really recommend an HB SWS if the rest of your army is tied up in other vital areas.

---

as for missile launchers, like all heavy weapons they have a very narrow role that they fill. In the case of missile launchers, they exist basically to be mortars which lose the ability to fire indirectly in order to gain the ability to insta-kill T4 baddies like space marine HQ choices.

"so, if you look at the math, you quickly see that both autocannons and heavy bolters are terrible against vehicles and heavy infantry..."
oh God, it's the maths and how terribad autocannons are again.
Autocannons are great at killing Rhinos. all the more reason i'd leave the H. Bolter at home.

Heavy Bolters really should have been priced the same as mortars. They are both comparable. Since Autocannons cost the same as Heavy bolters, you should always go with autocannons. They are superior in every way except for the extra shot.

Missile launchers..sigh... They are not worth it. If they cost the same as autocannons, then they would be worth it. But for 5pts more you get the superior lascannon for AT work. The AP2 is wonderful as it ignores FNP and 2+ saves. For anti-infantry, the super cheap mortar is superior to the Missile launcher as it is indirect and can sometimes avoid cover saves. Instead of taking an ok generalist weapon, you are better taking specialist ones.

Yes, heavy bolters and mortars should be 5, missile launchers and autocannons should be 10, and the lascannon should be 15.

AdeptSister wrote:Since Autocannons cost the same as Heavy bolters, you should always go with autocannons. They are superior in every way except for the extra shot.

This.

Unless of course you are simply going for looks, I personally think that the Heavy Bolter teams, and the Mortar teams look the coolest by far.

If going for effiency though, those above have stated it better than I would ever have the drive to.