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So I've been hanging around this general forum for a while now, and I've noticed that none of the proposed rules ever gets "approved" by dakka, overall. And I got to thinking, what actually would happen if a proposed rule was approved? Wouldn't is just die from the lack of posts, and no one would ever get to see the interesting characters, rules or add ons that these people and the dakkaites created? So I was wondering, wouldn't it make sense for a mod to make a thread to list links to various proposed rules threads, after they'd been generally "approved", so that not only would people be able to access rules more easily, but see what has and has not already been created. I also think that when a new rule/character/add on is approved. the thread should be locked. Why? Well for two reasons. First, if there are links to all these old threads in one collective thread, there's a high chance that old threads would be necromanced, or even just continually posted in, keeping them at the front page and preventing new rules from being introduced properly. Secondly, it adds a touch of finality. I think that if a rule is approved, it should've reached a point where it needn't be changed further. By locking the thread, it makes the thread less like a thread, and more like a small blurb explaining the rule, and showing others the viewpoints of how that rule was created.
On a related note, when a rule is on the verge of approval, a PM should probably be sent to the OP to post the completed rule (next to the original) in the first post, so that people who're just looking for new things can skim through without too much trouble.
When a rule's been approved, the OP should post a link in a designated thread, where a mod or some such person could add it to the list.
While this in itself, might end up becoming a proposed rule that gets into an infinite loop, much like so many others, I hope some people at least take a look into it, or something similar.

A good idea...keeping a "library" of some of the better polished ideas.

The downside: Skinnittar will show up to the idea and rant about how the IG deserve it more, Gwar! will call on the creatures of the RAWp to eat the idea alive, and Yakface will comment on how INAT eats babies. Naturally, I'll throw in the oft needed comment that GW could care less what we do or think, as long as we keep buying their products.

In short: there are very few ideas that would garner universal acceptance here on Dakka, but it is worth a shot!

I am working on a fan Taudex, and should have it posted sometime later. This later is to be determined.

I love the idea, but I doubt there will be enough "approved" rules, just because of the controversy involved of creating a rule.

I love the idea, but I doubt there will be enough "approved" rules, just because of the terribly created rules.

I changed that to be far, far more appropriate.

The vast majority of rules that don't get "approved" by Dakka are because the rules are so inherently terrible that they're not even fit for fun games to mess around between you and your friends.

Kanluwen wrote:

I love the idea, but I doubt there will be enough "approved" rules, just because of the terribly created rules.

I changed that to be far, far more appropriate.

The vast majority of rules that don't get "approved" by Dakka are because the rules are so inherently terrible that they're not even fit for fun games to mess around between you and your friends.

Such as the various incarnations of "THE EMPHRAH" as a new posters post #1...
(for rules summary: Roll a d6. On a 1+, the game is over and your opponent must give you their firstborn child.)

Hmm, that's pretty much what I was worried about too, the lack of actual rules. But a lot of the stuff here is also special characters and additional upgrades, that sort of stuff. Those sort of things tend to get approved more, and I think it'd be nice to collect enough of them to inject some flavour into games. Maybe collect them and make a Codex: DakkaDakka...hehe.

I've noticed that Chaos codices tend to be ignored. Perhaps it's because so many people make their own variation of it and people are sick of it.

Which is annoying when you want feedback!

ZoomDakkaDakka wrote:Hmm, that's pretty much what I was worried about too, the lack of actual rules. But a lot of the stuff here is also special characters and additional upgrades, that sort of stuff. Those sort of things tend to get approved more, and I think it'd be nice to collect enough of them to inject some flavour into games. Maybe collect them and make a Codex: DakkaDakka...hehe.

Well, again, that's the problem.

When people make a special character for their army--it tends to be so ridiculously overpowered that it boggles the mind. Then add in the fact that the poster of said idea usually takes some imagined offense when given feedback about it.

Additional upgrades/units are a hit or miss. They're either mindblowingly overpowered and the OP doesn't want their precious idea criticized or they're so underwhelming nobody would use them or even bother commenting on them.

No, no, but see, that's why I thought of this. Since there's so much stuff half-done or completely backtarded here, it's a pain to wade through for stuff to add to your armies. But if we had a system of approval for a new character or rule or whatever, then stuff that had been discussed to the point that it's game-balanced could be gathered together and easily accessed.
And those OPs that doom their own creations to death with a rigid inability to change their creations, would have little bearing on the system, as they wouldn't be approved/added to the collective until they gave in and balanced their creations.

Hi all.
I can understand the desire for a 'filter' of sorts to seperate the better ideas from the less well though out ones.

But as GW developers seem not to be able to 'filter' the rules they sell , how do you filter the free ideas posted on a forum?

Who decides what is worthy of 'approval'.

As the 'official GW ' rules are just based on the opinion of a few GW employees.
And not everyone can agree on whats good or bad ...or even a concistant definition!

Unlike a simulation where functions can be defined and refined.
Abstractions can not be evaluated in a similar manner , as most are just based on subjective opinions, NOT objective refinement.

TTFN
Lanrak.

Lanrak wrote:Hi all.
I can understand the desire for a 'filter' of sorts to seperate the better ideas from the less well though out ones.

But as GW developers seem not to be able to 'filter' the rules they sell , how do you filter the free ideas posted on a forum?

Who decides what is worthy of 'approval'.

As the 'official GW ' rules are just based on the opinion of a few GW employees.
And not everyone can agree on whats good or bad ...or even a concistant definition!

Unlike a simulation where functions can be defined and refined.
Abstractions can not be evaluated in a similar manner , as most are just based on subjective opinions, NOT objective refinement.

TTFN
Lanrak.

He's hit the nail on head right here
qft.

No, actually, he hasn't.

IF you expect people to comment/use your homebrewed rules:
You damned well better do a good job writing them and playtesting them before even posting them.
I'm going to really stress the writing part--run the thing through a spellchecker. Write it up as a document over the course of days, don't just sit down and say "HEY! THIS IS COOL!" and write the rules. Take your time. Do it right. You'll get better feedback and you won't get your rules looked at like "Oh...it's him again."

To really clarify:
There should not be 25 point Tyranid Monstrous Creatures posted that when they die spawn 35 more of them--that can then spawn MORE!

There should not be rules proposed for a character that takes all the best traits from the Codex's characters--with none of their drawbacks.

Kanluwen has expressed the thoughts that I've had with a lot of these proposed rules. That's why I proposed this system, to make people put more effort and thought into their rules, and encourage people to take a look at different concepts and new characters, because, hey, with some work, a lot of this stuff could be usable.
As for the "who decides" I partly agree, in the sense that Dakka will never completely agree on a rule or character being fair. These come from specific viewpoints (ie. an uber lance weapon would be more concerning for mech players than hordes) and while they're viewpoint is neccessary, one nay amongst many yays, does not consitute a new idea be scrapped. And even these examples, in the face of playetesting, and definitive evidence that such new rules are fair, there is little that they could do to stop such a process. Afterall, fair is fair.
As for a more specific answer to your "who decides" thing, I think a poll system might be the best bet. When the OP decides that the new idea is in a safe place, he/she PMs a mod, who'd setup an "approve/disapprove" poll, and based on results, a mod could approve and lock the thread, decide that it needs more work or decide that it's impossible to make such an idea work (this should be backed by a relevant arguement, of course).
No offense to the proposed rules forum, but I sincerely hope that this doesn't become one of the many limbo threads that I describe so often.

I think that this proposal, while noble in its own right, misses the point of the Proposed Rules forum, which is to be a bottomless pit into which proposed rules are thrown, much like the ancient Spartans used to expose unfit infants. The difference being most of these ideas are unfit, and the ones that are fit have better places to grow and develop.

As it stands, the Proposed Rules forum serves an important service in Dakka Dakka by being a place where proposed rules (see above for apt descriptions) can be thrown away.

Then where do the good ideas go? Just browsing through the front page, I see a lot of half-baked ideas that could be interesting or useful, with some work, but in this forum, they'll either die out or reach a game-balanced point and then die out.

See sites like Bell of Lost Souls for examples of fan-published work.

Kanluwen wrote:To really clarify:
There should not be 25 point Tyranid Monstrous Creatures posted that when they die spawn 35 more of them--that can then spawn MORE!

There should not be rules proposed for a character that takes all the best traits from the Codex's characters--with none of their drawbacks.

Unless those are the sorts of things that you enjoy including in your own games...


That's the real problem with trying to 'focus' forums like this one: different people want different things from their games. Some people want to tweak the existing rules into something that they perceive as being a little more balanced. Some people want to add in new and hopefully balanced extra options. Some people want to add in uber-character options and super-powerful vehicles... and all of these ideas are equally valid, if you're looking for something similar yourself.

As soon as we start 'approving' particular ideas, people will start accusing us of trying to dictate how people should play the game. Unless we approve such a wide range of different things that none of it really goes together... in which case the whole venture is futile.

I think it could potentially be made to work, if we set up different categories (Rules Balancing, Extra Character Options, Super-Sayan Character Options, Don't Use These Rules Unless You Are Crazy Or 9 Years Old, etc...) but it would be a lot of work... and you're never going to get everyone to agree on which category a given rule should go in, or on how balanced it is.

@insaniak

I agree assuming a balanced mod and not a "I am l33t, your opinion is wrong" person is overseeing it.

Catagories would or some kind of popular rules index would really help me in finding rules to better tailor my game of 40k (because ATM chaos = fail).

There are all sorts of problems with trying to get consensus on good rules, most of which have already been mentioned.

But there are no problems at all with one poster attempting to collect a summary of the best and most interesting rules. It would stand or fall on his own judgement, whether or not people found his summary a useful way of seeing some good ideas.

sebster wrote:There are all sorts of problems with trying to get consensus on good rules, most of which have already been mentioned.

But there are no problems at all with one poster attempting to collect a summary of the best and most interesting rules. It would stand or fall on his own judgement, whether or not people found his summary a useful way of seeing some good ideas.

Unless of course it turns into a massive flame war ("but this rule is the sux!"). But if the trolls were ignored, well maybe, just maybe.

Hi again.
The other problem with the idea of 'approved' rules is the wide diversity of gamers , playing 40k.
As Insaniak pointed out , a 10 year old wanting uberkewl sounding monsters and heroes, is playing the same game as someone wanting a game more suited to ballanced competative play.

When GW used to publish and support a wide range of games, the scifi gamers at GW had more seperate focuses rule sets to be closer to the groups ideals.
Space Crusade ,Advanced Space Crusade, Space Hulk,40k, Epic, Space Fleet, Necromundia(original concept game called Confrontation.)etc,

Now ALL are pointed to 40k, and told thier view of the game is right,in a bid to sell more minatures.


TTFN
Lanrak.

I don't think that people who want different stuff for the game should have an affect on the system. After all, if there is a collection of ubed up characters and a collection of game-balancing rules, then neither side should be displeased. Again, using a poll system, and getting final approval from a mod would really avoid the "yur ideas are st00pid lol." sort of thing.
And anyways, it's not we're forcing people to use approved rules, just making a clear distinction as to what works in games or not, and making it easy for newcomers to access them easily. It'd probably also prevent a lot of the redundancy that goes on.