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Hey all, first post. Anyways I just picked up WH40K this month after my friend, a Tau player told me how awesome it was. We messed around with some of his stuff for fun and now I'm starting my own Tyranid army. We are going to battle this Sunday, so I need to get my stuff together. I know he has two Broadsides, a couple groups of Kroot, and a couple Crisis Suits but other than that I'm in the dark. I have 736 points so far.

Here is what I've got thus far.

Troop 1: 24 Hormagaunts: 144 points

Not sure if I should leave these vanilla or add some biomorphs. Everyone knows what these do. Gives a 4+ cover save to my Warrior brood and my Genestealers. Pretty good in CC considering their cost. I like these and will eventually get at least 60-90 of them.

Troop 2: 8 Genestealers: 112 points

Again, vanilla Genestealers. They're pretty good already and I'm not sure biomorphs would be worth the added cost. Adrenal Glands with + Strength could be cool but I'm not too big on the metagame yet, would that help against anything important? I read Toxin Sacs are a waste and only help against a couple units.


Troop 3: 5 Warriors, 175 points
Scything Talons, Deathspitters

These guys are pretty cool, probably the units I've most read up on. Some places say they suck, others consider them a godsend. Personally I thought I needed more synapse and some guns, these guys did both. Since they can get instant killed by S8 weapons, which are apparently quite popular due to the prevalence of Mech armies, I'm staying with cheap Warriors if possible. I have a trick up my sleeve though, read on.

Elite 1: Tyranid Prime, 100 points
Lash Whip, Bonesword, Deathspitter

If put into a group with the Warriors, not only does he bump up their WS and BS to 6 and 4 respectively, but he gives me a T5 unit to take S8 and S9 attacks. With a save of +3 and the cover save I'm going to be getting from my Hormagaunts hopefully this will increase the survivability of my Warrior group against those kind of attacks. I need to know a few things about this rule though. If I get blasted by tons of S8 or S9 weapons simultaneously, how many can I allocate to my Prime? Will they be able to instant death some of my warriors by firing enough shots or will they have to cut down my Prime first? I'm not too familiar with the rules and the rulebook said you have to allocate attacks evenly I believe. Does that mean if I get blasted by 3 S8 weapons two Warriors will be Instant Deathed just like that?

Anyways other than those slight rule discrepancies I think this Warrior group is gonna be pretty good.

HQ: Hive Tyrant, 205 points
Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon

I bought this guy first before I realized how frail they are. I'm gonna need some Tyrant Guards soon, but that will have to wait. Anyways HVC for attempting to damage vehicles, and the Scything Talons are there because they look cool, are cheap, and help in CC. I haven't decided which spells I'm gonna stick with yet, I don't know which are the best, but the regen spell sounds good to me.


Anyways that is all I've got so far. I'm planning on getting a group of Zoanthropes, a couple Tyrant Guards, and some Hive Guards. Also more Hormagaunts. Please help me figure out what weapons, biomorphs and troops I should add onto this. I understand the basics of the game but I have this feeling I'm missing something here. Since my knowledge of other armies is limited I am not sure what to use from here on out. What needs to be countered / prepared for? Thanks in advance.

Well.. sorry I don't know much about new nids and since no one posted on your first dakka thread I felt I should.

if you want get vassal and I'll play against your nid army so you can get some experience with it and what not. But welcome to Dakka and 40k.


You dirty dirty xeno.

Dont worry nids were my first army too lol.

bourbon wrote:Hey all, first post. Anyways I just picked up WH40K this month after my friend, a Tau player told me how awesome it was. We messed around with some of his stuff for fun and now I'm starting my own Tyranid army. We are going to battle this Sunday, so I need to get my stuff together. I know he has two Broadsides, a couple groups of Kroot, and a couple Crisis Suits but other than that I'm in the dark. I have 736 points so far.

Here is what I've got thus far.

Troop 1: 24 Hormagaunts: 144 points

Not sure if I should leave these vanilla or add some biomorphs. Everyone knows what these do. Gives a 4+ cover save to my Warrior brood and my Genestealers. Pretty good in CC considering their cost. I like these and will eventually get at least 60-90 of them.

Adrenal Glands are worth the points & Hormagaunts have a low enough S that Toxin Sacs are also good

bourbon wrote:
Troop 2: 8 Genestealers: 112 points

Again, vanilla Genestealers. They're pretty good already and I'm not sure biomorphs would be worth the added cost. Adrenal Glands with + Strength could be cool but I'm not too big on the metagame yet, would that help against anything important? I read Toxin Sacs are a waste and only help against a couple units..

Agian Adrenal Glands I'd recomend a Broodlord with Implant Attack & Acid Blood. You don't need him but he always helps.

bourbon wrote:
Troop 3: 5 Warriors, 175 points
Scything Talons, Deathspitters

These guys are pretty cool, probably the units I've most read up on. Some places say they suck, others consider them a godsend. Personally I thought I needed more synapse and some guns, these guys did both. Since they can get instant killed by S8 weapons, which are apparently quite popular due to the prevalence of Mech armies, I'm staying with cheap Warriors if possible. I have a trick up my sleeve though, read on.

Again Adrenal Glands, but otherwise the same as my warriors.

bourbon wrote:
Elite 1: Tyranid Prime, 100 points
Lash Whip, Bonesword, Deathspitter

If put into a group with the Warriors, not only does he bump up their WS and BS to 6 and 4 respectively, but he gives me a T5 unit to take S8 and S9 attacks. With a save of +3 and the cover save I'm going to be getting from my Hormagaunts hopefully this will increase the survivability of my Warrior group against those kind of attacks. I need to know a few things about this rule though. If I get blasted by tons of S8 or S9 weapons simultaneously, how many can I allocate to my Prime? Will they be able to instant death some of my warriors by firing enough shots or will they have to cut down my Prime first? I'm not too familiar with the rules and the rulebook said you have to allocate attacks evenly I believe. Does that mean if I get blasted by 3 S8 weapons two Warriors will be Instant Deathed just like that?

Anyways other than those slight rule discrepancies I think this Warrior group is gonna be pretty good.

Tyranid Prime is an HQ I'd go with Twin boneswords, but after rereading lashwip give it a go and tell how it works, before I forget, Adrenal Glands, and regeneration, it's not always quite worth it but it dosen't hurt.

bourbon wrote:
HQ: Hive Tyrant, 205 points
Scything Talons, Heavy Venom Cannon

I bought this guy first before I realized how frail they are. I'm gonna need some Tyrant Guards soon, but that will have to wait. Anyways HVC for attempting to damage vehicles, and the Scything Talons are there because they look cool, are cheap, and help in CC. I haven't decided which spells I'm gonna stick with yet, I don't know which are the best, but the regen spell sounds good to me.

Once more, Adrenal Glands and Regeneration, Paroxysm is good & Psychic scream can be scary if you roll good on your AoE. Other Biomorphs, as this isn't a CC Tyrant I'd recomend Acid Blood or Toxic Miasma but not both, if you ever make a CC Tyrant I'd go with AB, TM and Implant atack. Armored Shell will help a little with the frailness, but so will regenration. If you chose to take a Thorax Swarm for this tyrant I'd recomend Desiccator Larvae, you've got the HVC for vehicles

bourbon wrote:Anyways that is all I've got so far. I'm planning on getting a group of Zoanthropes, a couple Tyrant Guards, and some Hive Guards. Also more Hormagaunts. Please help me figure out what weapons, biomorphs and troops I should add onto this. I understand the basics of the game but I have this feeling I'm missing something here. Since my knowledge of other armies is limited I am not sure what to use from here on out. What needs to be countered / prepared for? Thanks in advance.

Zoanthropes are a surprisingly solid choice, if you're gonna run Tyrants, Tyrant Guards are a must, I haven't used Hive Guards yet so...Hormagaunts are fun, they're like little inexpencive Genestealers. Look into a Tervigon, they can be hororific in small, low point games.
Anyway welcom to the HIVE MIND and remember te Tyranid Motto,
Consume, Evolve, Consume
Have Fun

Wow, adrenal glands are that good? Will surely be adding those to my Hormagaunts at least. Do people go WYSIWYG on adrenal glands because there is no way I can get enough to put some on each unit. not too sure about the warriors though.

Hive Guards can pop light tanks quite effectively and can shoot units even if they do not have line of sight. Pretty cool, I heard they are one of the best units and a must against mechanical armies so I'm throwing them in.

One more question: I have heard on other forums that Hormagaunts can assault up to 24", but I'm not seeing how. Unless they count as Beasts but my Codex says they are Infantry. They might be a lot less effective than I first thought... :/

The Lash Whip lowers the initiative of the target to 1. I didn't have two boneswords and I figured the Prime has only 5 initiative it couldn't hurt. Also, does the Lash Whip count as a secondary weapon, thus granting my Prime an extra attack in CC?

i believe that modelling the glands on is unnecesary as it isn't a weapon and applies to the entire unit- i think.

24"? not that i know of- i don't actually play tyranids yet but i'm still in the buying stage. they have fleet of foot and bounding leap, hence they can move 6", run 6" (if they roll good for running; since you roll 3D6 for running and take highest you have a good chance of doing that" and assault 6". s you have an 18" assault potentially. i could be wrong however.

i'm pretty sure all the close combat weapon biomporphs count as an extra close combat weapon- none of them count as thunder hammers, powerfist ect so i believe that it does give you the extra attack- don't quote me on that though, again this is just from memory

I think is says that Tyranids will never get bonus for double close combat weapons. As all the bonus's are involved in the profile already. I was just reading the dex a little today, and I think I saw that. I might be wrong when it comes to biomorphs though.

Koski wrote:I think is says that Tyranids will never get bonus for double close combat weapons. As all the bonus's are involved in the profile already. I was just reading the dex a little today, and I think I saw that. I might be wrong when it comes to biomorphs though.

nope, you're right- clean forgot about that.
Oh, on the subject, if you have say lash whip and bonesword, do you have to choose which one to use, according to the normal rules for special CC weapons? So you don't get the bonuses from both on the same turn?

Well I'm battling this guy at 6:00 PM today. Again, he is Tau. Anything I should know before I do this?

I'm probably just going to charge everything, keeping my Genestealers in reserve and then as soon as possible I will outflank with the Stealers and try and do some damage. Hopefully he will waste all his firepower trying to kill my Tyrant and then my Warrior squad can make it close thanks to the cover save the Hormies provide. I'm most worried about the Fire Warriors to be honest, their guns are just insane. I'm pretty sure with good rolls he could chew through all my hormagaunts in a single turn.

what i'd do (bearing in mind i haven't actually played with tyranid yet) is infiltrate the stealers close to the fire-wrriors (but preferably out of LOS) and tie them up in cc as soon as possible- that way the rest of your army will make it to their gunline (hopefully) intact.

or, perhaps, give the tyrant hive commander- that way your stealers are going to come in early. as soon as they're on the board your opponent HAS to deal with them- he can't ignore them since his FW won't have a chance against them in cc.

don't hold me to this though- i'm just throwing ideas out using my (limited) tyranid knowledge- it's basically what i do with my drop-pod dread against tau- throw a unit out that will probably die but will cause chaos for as long as it's alive- draws the attention away from your primary units

mispost. sorry

Oh, on the subject, if you have say lash whip and bonesword, do you have to choose which one to use, according to the normal rules for special CC weapons? So you don't get the bonuses from both on the same turn?

I might not be 100% correct, but If they have the lash whip and bonesword, it just means anything in contact with them gets the debuff from lash whip, and then his attacks are normal from bonesword.

I'm thinking it works something like Lucius the Eternal with his lash, except that they both do different things. What I'm saying is he still attacks with his power sword, and debuffs CC with the whip.

Tyranids CC weapons aren't weapons per se, so you get the bonuses from every weapon you carry, but never get the extra attack. So, A BS/LW combo puts your opponents init to 1, counts as a power weapon, and ID's on a failed leadership roll for every wound caused.

I think Toxin sacs are awesome on Genestealers if your playing against anyone with a decent armor save, because, toxin sacs allow you to re-roll failed wound rolls, which give you a chance for more rending hits.

Those Genestealers might be better on the outflank. Your hormagaunts are going to have to chew through his kroot before anything else.

I would armor up that tyrant unless you give him wings...make him scared of it...because if you can get it to his side of the board....well...nothing is less effective in CC than Tau...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tau rely heavily on long range shooting and quick movement...try restricting his movement while getting cover saves.

You could also infiltrate the genestealers which, when combined with fleet, will get them assaulting on turn 1 and allow you to cherrypick which unit you want to harass first. Then, use the outflank on the hormagaunts. Failing synapse won't hurt them too bad since they do not shoot anyways and will go after the nearest unit.

This will put a lot of stuff in his face early so he doesn't have the resources to worry about any footslogging units working there way across the board.

Zoanthropes NEED a Spore Pod!!! They are going to be priority target number 1 when he figures out how nasty they can be once they get into range. They will die most battles, but, they should take a lot of vehicles with them unless you just get unlucky with dice. They also tend to absorb a lot of firepower before they go as well.

I would drop the Scything talons on the Tyrant. With 5 attacks on the charge rerolling 1's is negligible compared to power weapon attacks from a bonesword and init 1 from a lash whip. Also, I wouldn't completely discount the idea of wings instead of tyrant guard. With 12 move you should be able to keep him in cover most of the time and get him into CC pretty quickly.

These are just my personal takes on playing Nids, i tend to prefer getting everything into CC as fast as possible to the exclusion of ranged units except zoey's. So I use wings and pods whenever i can and deep striking units like the tyrgon

Ok, here is what I think I am going to do.

His Broadsides are definately going to be firing on my Tyrant so I'm going to be advancing with him every turn. Since you can fire two Psychic powers per turn, provided they aren't both the same power, I'm going to try and use Leech Essence to keep my health up and Psychic Scream to do some splash damage; one thing I noticed about Tau is their mediocre Leadership stat.

If he can get to his Broadsides, unlikely since I will get killed in two turns from his Twin Linked Railguns (he only has two broadsides this I remember) the Hive Tyrant will maul them since he can't take saves against me in melee combat. No 2+ saves for you, Broadsides. Since the Railguns are Heavy 1 he won't be able to move them and fire either.

The Hormagaunts will attempt to charge the Fire Warrior line but he'll definately try and intercept with his Kroot. That's ok with me though, as long as my Hormagaunts are in CC with SOMETHING the FWs won't destroy them. Either way my Warrior group has 18 wounds all told. One group is going to get to the front line no matter what he does. If he moves his FWs backward he can't fire 30" and it's easy to charge 12" past his Rapid Fire range.

My Genestealers I am keeping in Reserve. With outflank they can come in from the side of the board which will put him in the middle of a two pronged attack. I'll probably try and do this turn 2 by giving my Tyrant hive commander, as mentioned earlier. I'm not sure it's worth 20 points for one unit of Stealers but I need to get the pressure on ASAP.

sounds a good plan- as long as there isn't anything that can ID your warriors/tyrant (i don't think there will be unless he has hammerheads)
keep us posted on how it goes

Adrenal glands on genestealers? no.

just no.

Genestealers are I6, going up to I7 isn't going to help them against 99% of your opponents, so its really the difference between S4 with rerolls and S5.

S4 with rerolls means more chances to rend, Toxin Sacs are WAY better than adrenal glands. consider a T4 opponent

lets say you roll 20 hits,
20 hits at S5 vs T4 = approx 13 wounds, with 3 of them being rends
20 hits with S4 poison vs T4 = 10 wounds with 3 rends to start, then another 5 wounds with 2 more rends.

so you end up with 11 normal wounds and 3 rends vs 10 normal wounds and 5 rends.

more total wounds AND a higher portion of rends

TOXIN SACS,

thats all i have to say, too many words above for me to read but this is the error. All stealers need toxin sacs, if not = fail. Reroll to wound leading to more rends.

GG

Toxin Sacs=Poisoned Weapon=Ohh My!
I chock this little lapse in Synapse to forgeting the most importent rule with a new edition "Read the Rule Book like a novel."
I've alway seen the wound on 4+ and thought "Why, my S vs. opponets T gives me a better chance then that", never once thinking about what "Poisoned Weapon" actualy did. Now I've reread Poisoned Weapon and have only one thing to say

TOXIN SACS YEAH!!!

Well, I managed to beat him. I know what you mean about needing Toxin Sacs on stuff, Hormagaunts can't really take on anything with armor otherwise. Here is what happened.

Basically at the start he immediately began pummeling my Warrior group with his Broadsides. I only suffered one wound due to cover saves. I charged everything and brought my Tyrant up around the other direction, keeping 36" of distance between me and his Fire Warriors. Began HVCing his groups as much as possible.

By turn 2 I had 11/24 Hormagaunts left and I got them into combat with his Crisis Suits. My Warriors got out of LOS with his Broadsides so I started spraying my Deathspitters at his Kroot. I knew he wouldn't let me get in CC with his FWs so I ignored them and let the Tyrant thin them out. He had to move his Broadsides so no shots this turn. Genestealers failed to outflank, I rolled a 2 so they didn't show :(

Turn 3 I was slowly wounding his Suits but running out of Hormagaunts. The Warrior group lost 1 member and another was about to fall, but I ended up wasting the entire squad of Kroot in CC. It was sick. My Genestealers arrived on the right side of the board and slaughtered the Broadsides instantly.

Turn 4 he killed another Warrior and five Genestealers with his FW squads. I ran the Stealers to the nearest group and hacked them to pieces while my Warriors and Tyrant pounded the other group. I was down to 2 Hormagaunts in CC with the Suits and they were going to be out of combat next turn.

Turn 5 all he has left is the Crisis Suits and my remaining Warriors dealt with them after suffering a couple of Flamers.



So I read the Poisoned Weapons entry and don't get it. So I wound on 4+, how is that a big deal? Most targets I'm wounding on 4+ anyways, is there no saves allowed? and what is this about rerolling? You reroll ALL misses with TS?


Also I really don't get all the Warrior hate I've encountered on the internet. They were my bread and butter units. They took a ton of fire and kept dishing out pain. 3 attacks in close combat with reroll on 1s, 6 WS, 4 BS, Assault 3 5S AP 5 weapons... that is a lot of firepower for ~46 points a model (averaging the 100 point cost of the Prime leader), and as I said before, they can take a beating as well. I'm definitely getting a third pack of Warriors to get a full squad. That will bring the cost down to 42 points per model too.

No, No read the entry on poisoned weapons in the rule book, don't worry it fooled me to and I've been playing 'nids since they first got a codex. It's on page 42 in the little rule book that comes with Black Reach, it's sick, just sick

Essentially if your S is equal to or higher than the targets' T, you get to reroll failed to wound rolls.

Hey check out this article over at Capture and ControlCapture and Control: 120 Days of Tyranids. The guy who wrote the article built and painted a tyranid army in a month and play tested it. He has some good thoughts about the units he played.

Thanks for the link that was a very informative read. He confirmed my suspicions on many units I haven't tried and reaffirmed my faith in the units I like.

I see a lot of players on here trying to play Tyranids like they did in 4th edition and I think that is part of the reason Tyranids aren't doing so hot in the competitive circles. Almost every single change to the codex encourages a swarmy army. Warriors are vastly improved, gaining extra WS, BS, a wound and a lower cost. Toxin Sacs is a godsend for Hormagaunts who now cost half of what they used to. Weapons no longer rely on the strength of the user.

People need to stop being stubborn and adapt to a changing game. The fact that competitive lists have 6-9 hive gaurds on them tells me that nidzilla isn't cutting it anymore.

These mech lists are full of anti-mech weapons which also handily take out monstrous creatures. The answer isn't more MCs it's more little critters to overwhelm the opponents

Thats true. Although sadly it mean's painting all of those models (if you want to).

Carnifexs with 3+ arent good enough anymore because if you have 9 carnifexs and the enemy has 18 missile launchers then just give up.

They are good [u]IF THEY GET TO COMBAT[u] Which they rarely do but with tervigon's near objectives spamming termagaunts and you spamming hormagaunts there aint much you can do. Unless you have a lot of russes

And if Old One Eye had a 2+ save he would be plain invincible (although he still rocks)

jaweyermuller, I didnt like that write up at all and disagreed with a lot of what he said. Sounds to me he hasn't explored the units and choices completely. Plus who fully paints an army without play testing it first.

I agree with Lord Fiend.

That tactica write up has a lot of things I disagree with.

I fully painted my orks without playtesting them. Though, I didn't have anyone to play at the time.