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Dracon 35 ???
2 Haemonculus Destructor x 2

Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, Disintegrator each with a raider 110 horror
Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, Disintegrator each with a raider 110 horror
Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, Disintegrator each with a raider 110 horror
Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, each with a raider 105 horror
Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, each with a raider 105 horror
Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, each with a raider 105 horror

Ravager x3 dark lances 110 horrorfex
Ravager x3 dark lances 110 horrorfex
Ravager x3 dark lances 110 horrorfex

Bike x 3 75 blaster x 2 20
Bike x 3 75 Blaster x 2 20
Bike x 3 75 Blaster x 2 20

Ok so I'm trying I'm really trying but I cant seem to make dark eldar do anything but lose. I like bikes with blasters they are good at tank hunting boosting and assaulting speeds at about 30' its pretty easy to get to someones face to get blaster shots off and they do pretty good.

Do I want to drop of warriors early with lances so they can get shots off and my raider can keep moving and shooting/grenades? Or do I want to keep them with blasters and get really up in peoples faces and just unload fire on armor and disintegrator on troops? Or do I want to give the ones with lances shredders so I have the 12' blast and splinter rifles when I roll up?

I try so hard yet I'm not doing too well with them.

Should I stay back with my skimmers in cover then shoot in near the end or try to fire first?

Please I'm asking for help.

Okay, let me open up with a question - what point total is this list for? It very much helps the discussion of what you want in your list if we know what point total you're building for.

Second off, I've had a few discussions of your lists with you now and I'm still not liking your loadouts. Let's look at your Raider Squads first since they are the bread & butter of the list;

5 Warriors, Blaster, in a Raider (with assorted upgrade options)

What do you see as the purpose of this unit? Because I do not see the purpose. It is built to basically hunt tanks, because a Str 8 Lance weapon is built to help you shoot up vehicles and MCs. However, you only have a 12" range with a Blaster. If you want to hunt vehicles why not take a Dark Lance? If you want to be a Gunboat then you need more firepower and should purchase a S.Cannon for the squads so you have more firepower to pour out at enemy footsloggers. Your current build is just not good at either job and that's why your army is suffering - most of your points are in units that don't succeed at being good at hurting either vehicles or footsloggers.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you don't tell me what is equipped to the Dracon how can I suggest his best use?

I've also said it before and I'll say it again - why do you have Horrorfexes on your Ravagers? What are your Ravagers doing within 18" of enemy troops? That is no place for a Ravager to be, save the points and drop the Horrorfex.

What are you assaulting with your Jetbikes and is it actually working for you? RJBs as you are currently fielding them make excellent tank hunters but very poor h2h fighters.

Do I want to drop of warriors early with lances so they can get shots off and my raider can keep moving and shooting/grenades? Or do I want to keep them with blasters and get really up in peoples faces and just unload fire on armor and disintegrator on troops? Or do I want to give the ones with lances shredders so I have the 12' blast and splinter rifles when I roll up?

Dark Eldar can either play as gunline or they can play assaulty/rush and they can combine the two quite effectively as well. What do *you* want to do with your DE? If you tell us whether you want to be gunline or aggressive we can provide you with lots of advice to make either strategy work. I see no value in telling you what strategy to use, what will be fun for you?

If you go search the Batrep forum you can find a couple DE batreps from me, Dashofpepper, and a good one from Messiah. All of them show some good basic builds and strategies for using DE, maybe looking at them would help you figure out some ideas of how you want to play them.

I've tried being aggressive with dark elder with shredders and didn't do much with it. I put questions marks on my Dracon because I'm not really sure how to set it up and I just threw the horrorfex on the ravagers because what would be good put the points on. I'm not assaulting with jetbikes just getting close to use blasters on side armor or what not and I've had good luck with that.

I took blasters because I tried lances and I either play too aggressively with them and end up not being able to use them because of movement and never use the lances so I didnt feel the points were worth it.

I'm not sure I'm playing my army or list attempts right. I like lances but for me they never ever seem to penetrate.

I think the jetbike would be terrible at h2h I cant see anything they could really win again.

I like aggressive and getting in peoples faces. I was tempted to put splinter cannons on my squads so I can get up close and fire away with more shots then just 1 lance or what not.

its kind of frustrating because every list I think heck this should do something just gets wrecked. Every time I use wychs they just.. really dont work out for me so I'm not quite sure what to do.

Okay, the following advice will be to get you a more Gunboat oriented list so that you can hopefully be aggressive and still succeed. Your list as currently presented is close enough to 1500 that I presume you're going for that.

Shatter.proof wrote:Dracon 35 ???
2 Haemonculus Destructor x 2

At 1500 points you have a lot of options for your HQs. For your list I'm going with the idea of you still being in the learning stages and will thus recommend fielding 3 Haemonculi with Destructors/Scissorhands. These will be a lot more forgiving then your Lord and can still be devestating in close combat. I will free up some extra points elsewhere so you could do such tricks as adding Combat Drug Dispensers or other wargear to them. Or you can drop them all and buy a Dracon w. a Retinue and load him in a Raider. Whichever choice you prefer.

Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, Disintegrator each with a raider 110 horror
Units of 5 Warriors, blaster, each with a raider 105 horror

My suggestion is to drop all your Raiders and buy 6 Raider squads with the following loadout; 6 men, Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider, Horrorfex

Ravager x3 dark lances 110 horrorfex

Drop the horrorfexes from your Ravagers. I also support turning two of your Ravagers into 3 Dissie Ravagers. If you prefer Dissies on your Raiders you can mix and match a bit, the goal is to have around 6-9 Dissies in the army.

Bike x 3 75 Blaster x 2 20

Personally I'd drop all of them and field some Wyches. But if you like the RJB squads I suggest dropping one of them to save on points and keep the other two as is.

You have extra points to put wargear on the Haemonculi if you wish, or to play around with other upgrades, but this will give you a good base to build off of.

====================================================
The basic strategy will then be thus;

Join the Haemonculi to 3 of the Raider squads.

On the first turn your Raiders all move up 12" and fire lances at vehicles. You use your RJBs the way you always have. The Ravager(s) with Lances also fire at vehicles. The Dissie Ravagers/Raiders fire last and target footslogging squads.

On turn 2 your Raiders move 6-12" to either get near an enemy unit (6" move) of get into a better position (12" move). Raiders that moved 6" will fire the Splinter Cannon, the Blaster, and rapid fire the splinter rifles. If a Haemonculi is in the boat you also fire your armor piercing flamer. Generally you want to 'gang up' on units and have 2-3 boats fire into them. Lances on your Raiders and Ravagers fire at any remaining vehicles. The Dissies fire at any squads that are too far away to have been shot up by Gunboats. The Gunboat squads can also fire on vehicles if they need to, as the Blaster can help pop those that are surviving your Lances.

As the game progresses you'll lose Raiders, the footsloggin DE will either keep moving around and shooting, or if they have a Haemonculi can assault into smaller units and rip them up with a wave of poison blade attacks.

The army's strengths will be mobility and firepower with a small assault possibility from the Haemonculi.

You can see a list using Gunboats with some Haemonculi support here
That army uses 4 Gunboats and also has 2 Raider Squads with Dark Lances to help out the anti-tank capability. You can mix n' match Gunboat and Sniperboats as you try to figure out the right mix you need for anti-vehicle options.

3 Haemonculus Destructor x 3 scissorhands x 3

Units of 6 Warriors, Splinter Cannon blaster, Disintegrator each with a raider 128 horror
Units of 6 Warriors, Splinter Cannon blaster, Disintegrator each with a raider 128 horror
Units of 6 Warriors, Splinter Cannon blaster, Disintegrator each with a raider 128 horror
Units of 6 Warriors, Splinter Cannon blaster, each with a raider 123 horror
Units of 6 Warriors, lance, each with a raider 118 horror
Units of 6 Warriors, lance, each with a raider 118 horror

Ravager x3 dark lances 105
Ravager x3 disintegrators 115
Ravager x3 disintegrators 115

Bike x 3 75 blaster x 2 20
Bike x 3 75 Blaster x 2 20
Bike x 3 75 Blaster x 2 20


With this I have ~1350 points and I'm not sure what to get. I could get like 1 wych squad but it be pretty bare bones and I dont know how much it would do on the table. I could drop bikes for wychs but wychs and me dont seem to work and I like bikes

a 2000pt list i made once i had something like 30 dark lance shots first turn with wyches for cc. i honestly dont feel like getting out a codex to write a complete list for you, your entire list is failure :/ the bikes are worthless

Thanks for the nice and positive feedback. Thanks for posting.

Shatter.proof wrote:With this I have ~1350 points and I'm not sure what to get. I could get like 1 wych squad but it be pretty bare bones and I dont know how much it would do on the table. I could drop bikes for wychs but wychs and me dont seem to work and I like bikes

Re-check your points, by my computation your list is over 1500, not approx. 1350.

clidefr0g wrote:a 2000pt list i made once i had something like 30 dark lance shots first turn with wyches for cc. i honestly dont feel like getting out a codex to write a complete list for you, your entire list is failure :/ the bikes are worthless

I'm not surprised your 2000 point army is tougher then his 1500 point army. RJBs are not useless, though in the raw numbers he's taking them in I'll agree he's burning more points then he should.

Haemonculus x 3
Destructor / Scissor hands
45 points each

Raider x 5 48 148
Sybarite w/ Crusible
Splinter cannon
Blaster 5
Raider 55
Horrorfex

Raider x 6 48 123
Splinter cannon
Blaster 5
Raider 55
Horrorfex

Raider x 6 48 128
Splinter cannon
Blaster 5
Raider 55
Disintegrator
Horrorfex

Raider x 6 40 123
Dark Lance 10
Raider 55
Disintegrator
Horrorfex

Raider x 5 40 115
dark lance 10
Raider
Disintegrator
Horrorfex

Wych 5 Blaster Blaster Wych Plasma
Succubis 1 Agonizer splinter pistol wych weapon Goblet of spite plasma
Raider w/ Horror
177

Wych 5 Blaster Blaster Wych Plasma
Succubis 1 Agonizer splinter pistol wych Goblet of spite plasma
Squad w/ Haywire
Raider w/ Horror
201


Ravager x 3 lance 105
Ravager x 3 disintegrator 120
Ravager x 3 disintegrator 120

1497 math should be better on this one.

I forgot to add in the haemonculis and such for my first list.

Wychs over bikes give me some CC control cause quite frankly my warriors just dont win too often in melee. Also Wychs give me about the same amount of blaster shots and in some situations can get first turn assault on things.

I think I'm moving in the right direction...

Shatter.proof wrote:Wychs over bikes give me some CC control cause quite frankly my warriors just dont win too often in melee. Also Wychs give me about the same amount of blaster shots and in some situations can get first turn assault on things.

Warriors should never be in close combat. They're Str 3, Toughness 3, 1 Attack models. The only time they should be in combat is if you're bought them a Sybarite with some wargear for h2h or paired with an HQ or Wyches. Warriors are for shooting things with their very affordable special/heavy weapons and for claiming objectives.

You can't field 2 Goblets of Spite - also something is off with your point totals for the Wych squads.

I've had times where the raider they were in was blown up then they got charged and locked in melee by like.. 1 guy.. it sucks.

Yeah they were a few points under they should be 182 / 187. If my math is right it should be 1488 w/o haywire grenades giving me 12 points for.. stuff?

Are my unit choices / armaments correct?

I'm looking at 9 dis
9 lances
7 blasters
5 cannons and ect. Is this where I want to be with my weapon load outs / troops? I could maybe move point around for different # of warriors or wychs but dont know how big of an impact on it'll make.

Shatter.proof wrote:I've had times where the raider they were in was blown up then they got charged and locked in melee by like.. 1 guy.. it sucks.

Such is the price of shooty troops. The Haemonculi you are running will make a difference in that regard but really you shouldn't be looking to get into h2h with anything in your current list except Wyches.

Shatter.proof wrote:I'm looking at 9 dis
9 lances
7 blasters
5 cannons and ect. Is this where I want to be with my weapon load outs / troops? I could maybe move point around for different # of warriors or wychs but dont know how big of an impact on it'll make.

There is no hard and fast rule for how many of any given item you need in a list. What works for me may not work for you. It is my personal opinion that you seem too obsessed with Dissies on your Raiders, but maybe you really feel you need less lances and more Dissies. The best advice I can say is - go play this list about 6 times versus a couple of other lists. If you're having troubling killing tanks, you need more lances/blasters. If you're having trouble killing footsloggers you'll need more Dissies/s.cannons.

Well like say I remove the dissies what would the points be better used at? Yeah I tried a list with too many dissies and it didnt do too well it just say I take out 2 for lances that leave me with 15 points, but what to put it on? More wargear for my haemoncs or troop leads?

In regards to those last few points, perhaps find 5 more and take a Crucible of Malediction.

I have a crusible in my army on my Sybrite. I'm playing with the list right now and I regreat having all disintegrators on my raiders, really sucks vs stuff with av 14 :?

Haha, missed that. Crucible.

Aren't the Dark lance and Disintegrator models very similar? I'm quite certain that you could either modify them slightly to become Dark Lances, or simply tell your opponent "These Raiders here have Dark Lances" without any issues.

Its not really a model thing at this point its more spending points and making sure everything works out.