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I have a question regarding dedicated transports in the dawn of war scenario. The rules state that you may place "two units" from your troop selection, and one unit from HQ selection.

Are dedicated transports considered as seperate units, in this regard? Is 10 space marines in a rhino considered one, or two units?

Subsequently, is a HQ bodyguard unit with the HQ itself considered to be one or two units? Is a Space Marine Command squad and a captain considered one, or two units? The command squad may never be fielded without the captain, so I'd think they were considered as one, but the wording on this is pretty terrible.

Think of it in terms of kill points. If it is worth 2 KP then it is two units. Therefore, an HQ cannot deploy with its retinue and a Rhino and Tactical are two units.

So a combat squaded TacSquad is considered 2 units in Dawn of War? That doesn't sound quite right.

It is not based upon Force Organization slots. It is based upon units.

Combat squads are separate units.

ICs are part of a unit (assuming they join one).

Vehicles are their own unit - or part of a vehicle squadron (unit).

calypso2ts wrote:Think of it in terms of kill points. If it is worth 2 KP then it is two units. Therefore, an HQ cannot deploy with its retinue and a Rhino and Tactical are two units.

Remember, an HQ with it *retinue* would be one unit. Neither a Space Marine Honour Guard or Command Squad would be a retinue.

Combat squading would be two units as would a squad of 10 in a rhino. Otherwise, you open up an entire IG platoon entering!

Homer

yeah a IC with a retinue wouold deploy with the retinue.

so a GKs list could deploy a GKhero with terminator bodyguard adn 2 squads of PAGKs

transports on the other hand count seperatly from their unit.

To the OP:

Why didn't you read the example in the rulebook?

Homer S wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:Think of it in terms of kill points. If it is worth 2 KP then it is two units. Therefore, an HQ cannot deploy with its retinue and a Rhino and Tactical are two units.

Remember, an HQ with it *retinue* would be one unit. Neither a Space Marine Honour Guard or Command Squad would be a retinue.

Combat squading would be two units as would a squad of 10 in a rhino. Otherwise, you open up an entire IG platoon entering!

Homer

Actually the "combat squads" and the "combined squad" rules do work.

Elaborate please.

To use these rules is a desision made at deploymen thus in fact making "combined squad" work as a single unit, "combat squads" however does the opposite, making one unit two, so i was wrong on that one

Combat squads does indeed work:

BRB, pg 93: Dawn of War: ...He can then deploy up to two units from his Troops selections...

C:SM, pg 51: Combat Squads: The decision to split the unit in to combat squads ... must be made when the unit is deployed.

In short, for DoW, you could potentially deploy 2 10 man tactical squads and then combat squad them, since that decision is made during deployment, giving you a total of 4 scoring units on the table. Alternatively, you could deploy 1 10 man squad and its dedicated transport and then combat squad, giving you 2 scoring units and a transport.

Hope that clears that up.

Except that at the end of your deployment you have deployed more than two troop units, and therefore your deployment is invalid.

Dawn of war is concerned about deployed units only, how they get there is irrelevant

Anyway we look at it "combined squad" works, while "combat squads" dosen't which is really unfair but as of now RAW – long live GW

@ nos
exactly, combat squadding is done during deployment, and if at the end you have more than two troop units its invalid.

Its not unfair, its what the rules say.

kill dem stunties wrote:Its not unfair, its what the rules say.

Your right if an IG player merges the whole platoon to get them in he only succeeds in getting all of his guns silenced by a single charge.

Steelmage99 wrote:To the OP:

Why didn't you read the example in the rulebook?

QFT. They use THIS SPECIFIC EXAMPLE.

Read the xample given in the BRB for dawn of war, it too specifically states that transports and there passengers count as 2 FOR spaces.

the captian, i think he should be deployed with his command squad retinue, but im not 100% positive.

If the command squad was a retinue, yes, but since it is not a retinue, no. The Space Marine IC and the Command squad are two separate units, just like an Eldar Farseers and a unit of Warlocks, which is the other one people always want to do this with. And the KP suggestion doesn't work. A true retinue and it's character are worth 2KP, but they are indeed a single unit.

To the OP. Your exact scenario, a unit of troops in their transport is the example they use in the Dawn of War deployment example. Read it, and pay attention to the player B example.