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The question is why?

Why would you field them over other units?
Autocannons – the Hydra seems better and for the loss of 2 shots you gain TL, extra range and the targetting sistem.
Lascannons – still the Vendetta seems better for just 25 points you get TL, and a lot of extra mobility plus a fast ride for ur PCS/Vets to grab objectives in.
Mortars – yea i'd rather have a Griffon for just 15 points you get 2 extra streinght and AP.
Missile launchers – two scout sentinels for the same price may have 1 less launcher but are a lot more mobile and for just 5pt a piece get smoke launchers.
Scoring – see Lascannons.

Feel free to prove me wrong.

They fit under one Force Org slot.

Or if you're me...DH can't take any of those things beside Sentinels...


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They count as scoring...


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Don't get me wrong...I think you're generally right...but there are some slight advantages...

One word: Survivability.

That vendetta is pretty sweet, but if I glance it with ANYTHING, chances are high it's not firing next turn. If I shoot your 3 man lascannon squad (which you're twinlinking with your CCS right? ....RIGHT?), then you get cover saves and I can put a wound on it. If it's a scary number of hits, then you go to ground and bust out the 3+ save and have your guys ordered to jump up and fire again next round by the CCS.

Twinlinking mortars is awesome too.

Well when you put it the DH way theres really no choice but you would if you could wouldn't you
And scoring really shall i add that to the list so we know which units do it better?

Seconding ductvader's comment on force org. I hadn't thought about that. I'm too busy taking basilisks, LRBTs, and hellhounds to max out on hydras and vendettas.

Ahh yes orders they're so much fun when you're LD 7 and can't have a VOX.

Edit: Actually im gonna shut up and see what others think since my opinion has been stated already

I would take a Vendetta for my Troops to have a working transport...not for being shooty...because in this game...there are rivers of melta waiting to swallow tanks whole.

HoverBoy wrote: Ahh yes orders they're so much fun when you're LD 7 and can't have a VOX.

You say so, but mathhammer tells us they go off more than 50% of the time. In the armies I've gone infantry heavy in, I'll throw Jerran Kell in. It's an expensive, but that makes your orders LD 9, and comes with a regimental standard. Discounting the cost of standard (since I'd have it anyway), is 70 points worth making your leadership on ALL your orders +2 and giving your CCS the ability to sweep 2 AP 5 wounds under the rug?

I'd say so.


EDIT: Clarity

It's the FOC and the fact that vehicles can be so easily shaken. It seems like most people are taking both, a couple of hydras, a couple of vendettas, and some HWSs, to get redundancy as well as durability.

If you really want to, it's possible to use Kell or an independent commissar to overcome the Ld 7 limitation. But it's usually more economical just to take another HWS or two and hit half the time.

And I don't see many people using mortars or missiles at all. They seem like sub-par choices overall compared with autocannons and lascannons.

I promissed to keep quiet but you'r mentioning that hammer that has no relation to actual gameplay begs the question – Have you done it in game? Because i sure tested all of these units before suggesting they're better than others.

HoverBoy wrote:I promissed to keep quiet but you'r mentioning that hammer that has no relation to actual gameplay begs the question – Have you done it in game? Because i sure tested all of these units before suggesting they're better than others.

If you are responding to me, then yes, I have, as a matter of fact. Everything I have posted in this thread has been out of pure playtesting. The mathammer is only brought to the conversation as supporting evidence.

What were the circumstances under which you tested it yourself? What armies were you playing; were they horde, MEQ? Did your opponent go with a particular bend toward killing horde or tanks? Most importantly, how many games did you try it in? I've had games where I've managed to fail every leadership check for orders I've attempted. Those were also the times my rolling was so hot I didn't need them. I've also had times I've passed every test. At the Adepticon Team Tournament, on LD 7 mind you, I made every test I rolled except two, both in just one of the four games.

Iv'e had about a dosen games since i switched out my HWS for the aforementioned units i was pleased with the results and am curious to see if others have the same opinion. So in a way i've tested them in comparison to HWS as opposed to testing them alone since i had a lot of HWS when the new dex came out.

Edit: To get my point clear i'd like to know the expiriences of players that have done the same, and what can and has gone wrong for them when playing that way.

Why? I don't for the reasons you mentioned among others. HWS are good for concentrating heavy weapons, but heavy weapons themselves are a far cry from what they used to be, both relatively and absolutely.

The only exception I'm making in my own list is mortars. I don't take them for the damage they do (because, seriously, FRF lasguns are going to do roughly the same), but because of how they effect my opponent's movement and deployment. People spread out when faced with blast templates. This is only more true when faced with groups of three for cheap. Plus, people are still unreasonably afraid of pinning (if you DO want to do pinning, though, mortars + psyker squad can cause a choice baddie enemy unit to spend most of the game sitting still).

That and they help with alpha strike. Even though they don't do a ton of damage, casting around dozens of little pie plates will make people twitch, and do stupid things.

The only other one I'd seriously consider taking is lascannons, for similar reasons (not their damage, but what the opponent percieves the damage to be and thus changes their movement and deployment).

Force organisation chart. I think a lot of very competitive mechanised armies have filled out their FA and HS choices by 2000 points, certainly pushing it by 2500. So it becomes attractive to squeeze in a couple HWSs.

They're not hard to kill, even with cover, but they ARE easy to hide in or behind terrain, and they can't be stunned like vehicles. I can see how including a couple in a horde of vehicles could be useful.

Also, they're necessary for all-infantry armies, but I know everyone on the internet hates those, so I'll be quiet.

I tend to shy away from a dedicated HWS. If I want to include heavy weapons in my Guard army (and I do!) I put them in with my PIS. Not only does this give them a higher chance of passing orders (Ld 8 as opposed to Ld 7) but they have more ablative wounds which increases their suvivablity massively.

I do, however, like having a few mortar HWS dotted around the place. Being able to fire indirectly and ignoring cover is fun, and throwing out 3 blasts at a very reasonable price is not something to be sniffed at. The only other heavy weapons I use are autocannons and lascannons. One I sit in PIS (autocannon) and the other is so expensive that I take Vendettas instead.

L. Wrex

Simple- HWS are part of a platoon, which can contain a PCS, 5 guard squads, 5 HWS, 2 SWS and conscripts for 1 troops choice and 1 reserve roll. You can mount them in chimeras and have them firing from the hatch, and they have 2 wounds each, and if you sit them on an objective-preferably an elevated one- they can take it while 12 wounds and great firepower makes them ideal for holding ones close to your board edge. But those 12 wounds are useless because a multi-las could ID all of them in one round of shooting. It all depends on taste really.

1st. HWS can't take dedicated transports, so you surrender the ride of someone else and you must embark them after deployment costing them a round of shooting.
2nd. they only have 6 wounds.