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Valk/Vendetta w/ G/Ks inside. Scout 18” (fast skimmer) before the game and face your butt forward.

Turn 1 unload 2”, get 1”from the GK base, move 6”, assault 6”. That’s 33” charge range before the enemy can do anything about it.

Am I missing something? Seems too brutal to be true.

Asked the same question a long while ago, and yes, its perfectly legal.

Nasty, I know.

You don't even have to turn the Valk around.

The latest FAQ states that you can place your disembarking anywhere within 2 inches of any part of the base, not just the sides or rear.

Oh, and BTW, you can Scout 24" with the Valk; you are not limited to 18"....fast Skimmer

But you do have to be more than 12" from the enemy at the end of your scout move. So I think you'd actually have to turn the valk sideways to be able to get the base close enough for a turn 1 assault.

Aside from bubble wrap, there are two easy counters for this strategy:

1. If your opponent doesn't deploy, puts everything in reserve, there's nothing for you to assault turn 1. He can enter from reserve turn 2 with guns blazing at your expensive valk.

2. If your opponent deploys (usually by infiltration) a unit 12" in front of the thing you want to assault. That pushes back your scout move so you can't get close enough for the assault. Then he can use his own scout move (if he has one) to move his infiltrating unit back out of your new assault range, or just sacrifice the cheap infiltrating unit if he doesn't have a scout move.

Is it legal to perform a scout move using the gunship with an embarked unit that does not have scout? It seems too good to me. Sure you can put your army in reserve as suggested but then the IG can use Officer of hte Fleet to --1 your reserve rolls, so there is still a good chance you will have your army come in piecemeal. Also if you bring deepstriking units IG can use the Inquisitor/Mystics ally. It just seems like IG has a hard counter to everything.

G

You most definitely can get within charge range: I haven't used it in battle but I've measured it out many times. If you're not sure what the TO will rule w/r/t where you disembark, or if they will push you too far back w/r/t the 12" (you only have about 1/2" of leeway, so if they rule that you can't be within 12" of a non-hull part of a vehicle but rule that you need to assault the hull, for instance) then take a heavy weapons team and then you can get an additional 1 1/2" of charge!

I'm glad to see I'm not missing something. I think I'm going to take at least 5 GKs for awhile and see how it plays out. Even against armies where you don't want to our can't bum rush the GKs would be a nice counter assault/hard scoring unit.

Thanks guys!

Black Blow Fly wrote:Is it legal to perform a scout move using the gunship with an embarked unit that does not have scout? It seems too good to me. Sure you can put your army in reserve as suggested but then the IG can use Officer of hte Fleet to --1 your reserve rolls, so there is still a good chance you will have your army come in piecemeal. Also if you bring deepstriking units IG can use the Inquisitor/Mystics ally. It just seems like IG has a hard counter to everything.

G

I think it's FAQd that the unit inside can scout. Even if it's not, I have no problem with it.

Because officer of the fleet is -1 to *all* reserve rolls, that's not necessarily a disadvantage when your whole army is in reserve. It moves the entire army back one turn (although there will be a few early birds that you might have to hide or sacrifice to kill artillery) and the guard army can't kill what it can't fight. It also opens the possibility of a massive entry of most of your army in turn 4-5, which allows you to possibly do the ninja Tau thing of grabbing all the objectives or racking up a bunch of kill points and then hiding in the endgame.

OotF works best when the opponent reserves one or two key units, especially hammer or deathstar units, because it keeps those units off the board for an extra turn while the guard player still gets to fight the rest of the army.

Flavius Infernus wrote:But you do have to be more than 12" from the enemy at the end of your scout move. So I think you'd actually have to turn the valk sideways to be able to get the base close enough for a turn 1 assault.

Aside from bubble wrap, there are two easy counters for this strategy:

1. If your opponent doesn't deploy, puts everything in reserve, there's nothing for you to assault turn 1. He can enter from reserve turn 2 with guns blazing at your expensive valk.

2. If your opponent deploys (usually by infiltration) a unit 12" in front of the thing you want to assault. That pushes back your scout move so you can't get close enough for the assault. Then he can use his own scout move (if he has one) to move his infiltrating unit back out of your new assault range, or just sacrifice the cheap infiltrating unit if he doesn't have a scout move.

Other counter...play GK against you. Makes the tactic a lot less effective.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470041a_FAQ_ImperialGuard_2009.pdf

Don't forget, GKT's can't get in the ride.
Only PAGKs can get in, which IMO makes the whole thing very questionable.
They are a water unit and not exactly a primary hammer unit (though compared to the rest of the IG list they are). It just doesn't seem cost effective to use PAGK's in a Guard list.

Sanctjud wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m470041a_FAQ_ImperialGuard_2009.pdf

Don't forget, GKT's can't get in the ride.
Only PAGKs can get in, which IMO makes the whole thing very questionable.
They are a water unit and not exactly a primary hammer unit (though compared to the rest of the IG list they are). It just doesn't seem cost effective to use PAGK's in a Guard list.

agreed

Works better as an anti tank unit with Vets and Demo skill 10 auto-hitting melta bombs = dead tank.

The Strange Dude wrote:Works better as an anti tank unit with Vets and Demo skill 10 auto-hitting melta bombs = dead tank.

There you go!

No that's what Guard do!

I still think it's illegal for a unit without scout to use the scout move in a Valkyrie or Vendetta, especially seeing the FAQ does not say you can.

G

Black Blow Fly wrote:I still think it's illegal for a unit without scout to use the scout move in a Valkyrie or Vendetta, especially seeing the FAQ does not say you can.

G

Make a thread on YMDC then.

Black Blow Fly wrote:I still think it's illegal for a unit without scout to use the scout move in a Valkyrie or Vendetta, especially seeing the FAQ does not say you can.

G

...and you would still be wrong

Go take it to YMDC, and they will be happy to point out the error of your ways

Black Blow Fly wrote:I still think it's illegal for a unit without scout to use the scout move in a Valkyrie or Vendetta, especially seeing the FAQ does not say you can.

G

It is legal for many of the same reasons that your Raven-trick is illegal - passengers have no effect on the vehicle rules except in rare circumstances. (giving scout to it's dedicated transport)

This point has been aired A LOT when the IG codex hit, just search the YMDC

Black Blow Fly wrote:I still think it's illegal for a unit without scout to use the scout move in a Valkyrie or Vendetta, especially seeing the FAQ does not say you can.

G

This is my understanding:

The unit inside of the vehicle is not relevant, it isn't on the table and as such is not involved in the game yet. It is literally along for the ride. The vehicle itself is the one moving, thus it is the one interacting with the laws of the game. If the vehicle can scout, it can drag along whatever is inside of it.

I might be wrong with this, but I'm reasonably certain that I am not. I usually don't answer rules questions at all unless I'm sure I'm right, I like to avoid spreading misinterpretations of the rules. So I guess, take it with a grain of salt and look into it a bit more, but that is my reasoning for why it works. It really isn't that overwhelming a thing in game terms. The GKs are solid in CC sure, but they get wrecked by just about any real CC unit in the game. Also running them up the table like that leaves them very unsupported and seems like nothing but a great way to throw away a ton of points (130 for the Valk + whatever the GK unit costs) without a very devastating effect.

It is a very nice move and versatile. The GK's are all str 6 and can wreck a number of vehicles. They have a ton of bolter shots before they charge so even a large squad of troops is in peril and they aren't to shabby in HtH either.

Aren't too shabby...haha...they're some of the best troops in the game at a CC.