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I'd like some opinions regarding Dedicated Transports in Annihlation missions. I brought it up to my club manager who said that they count as their own kill point, which I disagree with. I play Orks on occasion, and when you bring alot of Trukks, I walk on thin ice in kill point missions, seeing as how they are so poorly armoured.

The 40k rulebook doesn't state anything regarding Dedicated Transports as being worth a kill point, and if the rules don't state that it is, in my eyes it isn't. I would say that for example a Trukk and it's squad of Boyz would be one kill point, as that transport is dedicated to that unit, therefore being a part of that unit. Unit = Kill point.

Have I missed something? Or am I in the right?

The rule book specifies that the player is awarded a single kill point for every "unit" destroyed. As you are allowed to move your dedicated transport across the board individually from the unit that it was originally purchased for (making it its own unit) I would extrapolate that they most definitely count towards the KP total.

samrtk wrote:I'd like some opinions regarding Dedicated Transports in Annihlation missions. I brought it up to my club manager who said that they count as their own kill point, which I disagree with. I play Orks on occasion, and when you bring alot of Trukks, I walk on thin ice in kill point missions, seeing as how they are so poorly armoured.

The 40k rulebook doesn't state anything regarding Dedicated Transports as being worth a kill point, and if the rules don't state that it is, in my eyes it isn't. I would say that for example a Trukk and it's squad of Boyz would be one kill point, as that transport is dedicated to that unit, therefore being a part of that unit. Unit = Kill point.

Have I missed something? Or am I in the right?

You can disagree all you want, you are still wrong.

DTs are KP, end of Discussion.

They are not part of the unit because they do not have to keep coherency.

They count as a kill point to counter balance the fact they can be used to contest objective claiming in the other two missions.

Jack

If you really have qualms with this you could play modified KPs where all units are worth 2 KP and Dedicated Transports are worth 1 KP

I don't have too much of a problem with it, it's just that the rules aren't clear, and I wanted to hear other peoples views on it, seeing as though there is no clear answer.

samrtk wrote:I don't have too much of a problem with it, it's just that the rules aren't clear, and I wanted to hear other peoples views on it, seeing as though there is no clear answer.

There is a Clear Answer though.

Not liking a rule doesn't make it unclear.

Point me to where it is clear. I've been looking through the rules and it is nowhere clear on how they stand as kp or not; hence this thread.

Is it a unit?

check.

If it is not a unit, then there are no rules governing how to use it. In that case, it looks a lot like terrain to me, you must have reserved all your Orks!

The Ork codex says Trukks function as seperate units, but does not specify if they are a unit themselves; likewise there is nothing in the main rulebook that says that DTs do count as killpoints. You cannot field a Trukk without a squad in it. This is the whole purpose of this thread, to come to a conclusion, rather than people just throwing their opinions with no evidence to back them up.

This is the video that 'opened my interest' about this topic: Clicky
Watch at 3:57

It's not a case of me having problems with it, I just want clarification, because right now to me it seems like they aren't KPs, based on what I've seen. Go ahead flame me

samrtk wrote:The Ork codex says Trukks function as seperate units, but does not specify if they are a unit themselves;

Think you have answered your own question

I think everyone will agree they do, as other poster said as they can contest objectives, can be heavily armed etc. Just wouldn't make any sense for them not to be KPs, bit crap for orks but not the end of the world

There's a definition/explanation of what a unit is at the front of the book, and transport vehicles (regardless of whether dedicated or not) clearly fall into it.

Fair enough. Cheers for the assist.

Er .... "You cannot field a Trukk without a squad in it."


Thats not true ... you dont have to start the unit inside its dedicated transport, its just no OTHER unit can start inside it., though they can embark normally once the game starts.

It could be worse, you could be bringing devilfish which unless you change their weapon layout for a bunch of points count as 2 KP (once they are destroyed the drones break off and form another unit that has another KP

Fizzywig wrote:It could be worse, you could be bringing devilfish which unless you change their weapon layout for a bunch of points count as 2 KP (once they are destroyed the drones break off and form another unit that has another KP

waaah?! i have been cheated- we played that as 1 KP last game i played v tau... damn..
saying that though, we were playing infinite turns (we were bored..) so killpoints are irrelevant- tabled is an instant win

That sounds as silly as biovores firing free kill points at the enemy in the old codex.

@ samrtk: It does suck that your fragile trucks are worth KP but its a symptom of having to blanket so many different armies and styles with a single set of rules. If transports aren't kill points you could have swarms of lazorbacks and land raiders mincing about with impunity.

Ashtaroth wrote:

Fizzywig wrote:It could be worse, you could be bringing devilfish which unless you change their weapon layout for a bunch of points count as 2 KP (once they are destroyed the drones break off and form another unit that has another KP

waaah?! i have been cheated- we played that as 1 KP last game i played v tau... damn..
saying that though, we were playing infinite turns (we were bored..) so killpoints are irrelevant- tabled is an instant win

Often tau players will forget to put down the drones (lord knows I did) or think that putting them down is optional(again, I figured it had to be optional right?!?) but no, the tau player MUST put down the two drones, and then you have to kill them separately (although if you cant kill the drones you probably have bigger problems) you don't get the KP until the drones get killed.

if the Devilfish has SMS'es then its only 1KP.


its pretty lame but them's the breaks.

Soup and a roll wrote:@ samrtk: It does suck that your fragile trucks are worth KP but its a symptom of having to blanket so many different armies and styles with a single set of rules. If transports aren't kill points you could have swarms of lazorbacks and land raiders mincing about with impunity.

I just meant Dedicated Transports, like Rhinos and Trukks, not Heavy Support stuff, that would be insane

But Land Raiders can also be dedicated transports, depending on the army and what unit is taking them.

Jack

samrtk wrote:

Soup and a roll wrote:@ samrtk: It does suck that your fragile trucks are worth KP but its a symptom of having to blanket so many different armies and styles with a single set of rules. If transports aren't kill points you could have swarms of lazorbacks and land raiders mincing about with impunity.

I just meant Dedicated Transports, like Rhinos and Trukks, not Heavy Support stuff, that would be insane

My 3 dedicated transport chaos land raiders, or 3 dedicated tranport battlewagons (2 as troops!) would love to disagree with you...

P.92 Rulebook
Under "Multiple Unit Choices":
"...Apart from being bought as a single choice, these units operate and count as seperate units IN ALL RESPECTS."
Therefore dedicated transports are worth 1 KP

Another example of this is a character with a retinue, being worth 2 KP. 1 for the character, and 1 for the retinue.
NOT 1 for the entire group.
As shown on P.91 "Annihilation" --> "Victory Conditions"