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I would like to know if certain combinations are good:

DA with bladestorm and Exarch with two catapults.
In Wave serpent with spiritstone and shuriken cannons.
Accompanied by Farseer which joins them.

Are pathfinders any good?

Also Two wraithlords with wriathsword and BL and the second one with wraithsword and EML, accompanied by Farseer with warlocks (If yes what combination of spells is good?).

Is it worth taking harlequins with troupe master and shadowseer?

What about a fire prism?

And finally, Is it smart to take Striking Scorpions?

In a competitive environment, these units tend to go like this:

DAs in a wave serpent = safe & scoring
DAs get out of their wave serpent to shoot with fancy bladestorm & extra shuricats = dead DAs next turn
So why spend extra points on the exarch upgrades when it's really better usually not to use them?

Pathfinders are totally great on defense against everything except flamers and assaults. One flamer shot or one mid-powered assault will totally wipe out the unit, though, so it's a tradeoff. On offense they are decent against heavily armored infantry in the open, weak against hordes, and helpless against vehicles.

With wraithlords, it usually goes like this:
Wraithlord moves forward 6", runs maybe 3" or fires a missile and misses. Opponent shoots 3-5 krak missiles. Wraithlord dies. Next turn repeat with second wraithlord. A wraithlord can last twice as long in cover, but also moves slower and probably wont see HtH either way.

Harlequins are good in assault as long as they all have kisses, but they can't get a dedicated transport to take them to the enemy where they can assault. Without a shadowseer, they will die in turn 1-2. The troupe master isn't really worth the cost of what he brings to the unit.

A single fire prism tends to miss a lot, spend half the game shaken, and/or get its cannon blown off and then have to zip around ramming stuff. Two prisms is pretty good.

Striking scorpions are good in assault, but they need a transport to get them to where they can assault. If they lose their ride, they tend to get shot to death. Also they need some backup in assault, or they'll kill one unit and then get shot to death afterward. If you infiltrate them, they can sometimes catch a unit in assault without a transport (before being shot to death).

Sorry to sound so cynical, but the Eldar codex is old and barely functional for competitive play. There are a couple of good builds, and it's still fun for casual play of course.

Sorry to sound so cynical, but the Eldar codex is old and barely functional for competitive play. There are a couple of good builds, and it's still fun for casual play of course.

It isn't that bad, c'mon now... second tier from being a strong first tier, yes, but not complete crap.

Sartharis wrote:I would like to know if certain combinations are good:

Abstract question is abstract.

DA with bladestorm and Exarch with two catapults.
In Wave serpent with spiritstone and shuriken cannons.
Accompanied by Farseer which joins them.

In a DA heavy mech army, you can easily make use of a BS squad. The important thing to note, is the fact that defend/S. shield is a better use of an Exarch. With a 5+ cc invuln/-1 attacks to opponent, makes DA capable of actually being effective in CC. You can, with use of catapults to thin out a squad, take down assault terminators, assault marines, and possibly khorne bezerkers depending on how lucky you get. Along with fortune and doom, it is not beyond a full squad of assault DA, to utterly wipe the floor with Meq units.

Tactical marines/ heavy weapon squads, are the preferred target of assault DA, at least in most situations.

Are pathfinders any good?

Yes. They are good at killing MCs, supplement them with doom, and make full use of their gnarly 5+ ap1 shots. They can also serve to take down AV10, avoid shooting at anything else. Their strength is in shooting things without any cover save, take advantage of their strong suits. A 2+ cover save is pretty nifty as well, too bad they will be annihilated at some point by a single flamer shot.

Also Two wraithlords with wriathsword and BL and the second one with wraithsword and EML, accompanied by Farseer with warlocks (If yes what combination of spells is good?).

I use either 2 EML/BL Wraithlord, along with a squad of S. laser Warwalkers; or 3 Swordlords walking alongside an Avatar. Keep them cheap or shooty, I have had bad luck trying to do anything complicated with them. Two s8 shots on a t8/3w MC is pretty tough, just avoid getting caught in combat with Powerfists/claws, they munch up WL easily.

Is it worth taking harlequins with troupe master and shadowseer?

A Shadowseer makes the Harlequins useful, the T. master gears them toward anti-infantry. ALWAYS take a shadowseer, it isn't worth it to not do so. The TM costs 38 points, and is only cost effective with a PW, the kiss is just not suited for a single unit. You need a lot of hits from a kiss to actually get any rending, but a PW doesn't need 6's to ignore armor, and Doom will make the TM well worth his points.

What about a fire prism?

Take two, or don't take any at all. They work best in pairs, simply because they can cover each other. The combo-shot can be useful, but it is better to have two pie plates in most situations, especially with all the cover present in most games.

And finally, Is it smart to take Striking Scorpions?

I like scorpions a lot, even if they are slightly underpowered. Keeping them cheap is a good idea, even though taking the PK exarch is usually worth it. Scorpions will cause very serious problems for many Ork armies, especially if the Ork is footslogging. Take an Exarch with both powers, give him a biting blade to allow him use of his fantastic Ini 6, as well as the ability to insta-gib many IC's. Infiltrate the squad along a flank, avoid placing in the center of the board (don't want to give your opponent the chance to use all of his small arms for no reason! ), and use the scorpions as an assault deterrent (counter-assault). With no FoF, you have to be careful to avoid getting assaulted, but it usually isn't that much of a problem with the rest of your army running around.

I'll comment on what I play.

The use of wraithlords as CC units is really midguided. Their str 10 is nice, but they only have 2 I4 WS4 attacks. If you include them in your army, it should be as dedicated anti-horde or anti-tank. A lord is the only place in the army to get a BS4 brightlance (granted, you can get a TL-BL from a Wave serpent, but thats neither here nor there). I only ever put a wraithsword on my lords when I'm short on points and want to fit the T8 body into the list for target denial purposes.
Basically, i recommend this:
Wraithlord + BL + EML + 2 flamers (decent AT)
or
Wraithlord + scatter laser + s. cannon + 2 flamers (massive anti-horde)
what sees a lot of time in my lists (as i cram as many as i can in a wraithwall at 1500):
Wraithlord + sword + BL + 2 flamers

The sword/BL lord doesn't try to get into CC. It sits in cover and shoots the BL and basically is a horde-deterrent with those flamers.

Do not try to get your wraithlords into CC - period.

A lot of people (see above) will say wraithlords fold to AT fire, which is only half true. At T8, it takes (all on average) 12 BS 3 krak missles to kill a wraithlord. 9 BS4 missles. Put them in cover and those go to 24 and 18. That is a lot of fire to put down a single model. If you can't find cover most of the time for your wraithlords, the tables are too sparse. You can also make your own.

Pathfinders ... I tried them for a long time, but I don't like them. Static targets that don't put out much damage and don't take a lot of effort to make go away. Bad opponents shoot at them from long range. Good opponents drive-by them with a flamethrower.

Harlequins - good for a foot list. Otherwise, not so much. I take 8 (including 1 shadowseer) with 8 kisses. When all goes according to plan, I fortune them, doom their target, and charge. I've yet to find anything which can stand up to this in assault, except for tyranids with lashwhips (and you don't assault those ... do you?). They wipe the floor with plague marines, khorne berzerkers, boyz, terminators, tyranid warriors, genestealers (though its hard to get the charge on them). It works. Just don't let them get shot.

Fire prisms - take 2 or don't take any.

Eldar are competitive still, they just aren't a press go army like a lot of them.

Good combos:

Eldrad + Avatar
That makes a foot list viable. They are seriously the best combo since starsky and hutch.

5 Dire Avengers in a Serpent, just to make it scoring.

10 Storm guardians with 2 flamers with a warlock with destructor in a serpent. 3 cheap (relatively speaking) template weapons in a super fast tank that is also scoring.

Seer council, fortune and doom farseer with yriel equals an ass whipping on nearly everything. You can also sub out yriel for karandras or jain zar here.

For a WL, you need to have multiples of them or they fold quickly. Run 2 or 3. I use the EML bright lance combo as this gives you three very tough shooting units for relatively little points that are very resilient. Stick them in cover and let them shoot. They don't really need farseer support, which is why I like them. Plus they hold their own in counter assault.

Or, give them just a WS, and run them straight forward every turn. That is a 100 point unit that the enemy must deal with.

Warwalkers with guide is a great buy, I like all EML's or all Scatter Lasers.

Harlies work best in a foot list, as has been said, although 6 in a Falcon is still effective. They HAVE to have the shadowseer, troupe leader is optional. I don;t usually use one.

A GREAT unit is the 3 man bike squad with s.cannon, warlock with spear and destructor. That squad can take out tanks, light infantry, and score. It is a fantastic deal for its points cost.

Pathfinders (I prefer rangers to save points) are very good for winning the game by holding an objective. If you combo them with a farseer and take a large squad (which gets costly) they can be very powerful for killing things like MC's and such. When guided against a doomed target, 10 pathfinders will obliterate it.

Also, a Dark Reaper squad combod with a farseer is nasty. Fortune them to make them very hard to kill and then doom or guide. The exarch with a tempest launcher ignoring cover saves can nuke an entire MEQ squad.

Eldar are still a good army, just not what they were in 4th. Don't let the nay sayers get you down, besides, it is more fun to win with an army that is considered underpowered.

Gwyidion wrote:I'll comment on what I play.

The use of wraithlords as CC units is really midguided. Their str 10 is nice, but they only have 2 I4 WS4 attacks.

And two flamers... and the fact that they can lock up a 30 man squad of Ork boys if you can manage to avoid the PK Nob... Fearless shmearless, get cozy with my WL, cuz that squad is going nowhere.

100 points... not bad at all, I would like to see an invuln come time for the next codex though. Also note, WS4 with RRs, makes 3 attacks more than enough to absolutely decimate tanks, most of which will not be able to outrun the WL. WS4 with RRs, happens to be better than WS5, so... yeah, think about it.

If you include them in your army, it should be as dedicated anti-horde or anti-tank. A lord is the only place in the army to get a BS4 brightlance (granted, you can get a TL-BL from a Wave serpent, but thats neither here nor there). I only ever put a wraithsword on my lords when I'm short on points and want to fit the T8 body into the list for target denial purposes.

Swordlords will do nothing but run all game, until they find something to drop two flamer templates on, or a tank takes a wrong turn.

Wraithlord + scatter laser + s. cannon + 2 flamers (massive anti-horde)

Cover will make these points a pretty clear waste. I dunno, it CAN work, but why spend the points on a scatterlaser? Just get a single S. cannon, it is much more cost effective.

The sword/BL lord doesn't try to get into CC. It sits in cover and shoots the BL and basically is a horde-deterrent with those flamers.

First of all, what kind of terrain are you using the allow your WL to benefit from cover? Are you using tanks or something?

Anyway, EML/BL combo makes more sense, 2 S8 shots can reliably break cover saves, one S8 shot will not be reliable. Also, why put a sword on a WL that is going to sit in cover all game? I don't understand the point of that at all...

Do not try to get your wraithlords into CC - period.

3 t8 wounds, s4 can't wound them, GET THEM INTO COMBAT.

If you are going shooty, you will still find opportunities to make more use of the WL's high toughness value, especially in the last couple of turns.

S4 can't wound them... it is THE advantage to having a t8 unit. You risk being shot by things that can actually hurt the WL, if it does not find it's way into a cozy nest of useless s4 attacks.

A lot of people (see above) will say wraithlords fold to AT fire, which is only half true. At T8, it takes (all on average) 12 BS 3 krak missles to kill a wraithlord. 9 BS4 missles. Put them in cover and those go to 24 and 18. That is a lot of fire to put down a single model. If you can't find cover most of the time for your wraithlords, the tables are too sparse. You can also make your own.

I am still interested how you can so easily find cover on your game-tables. 25% of the table in cover (most of which will reliably have a very low profile, and conceptually work like a trench), does not make for a lot of places to actually find cover... for one of the tallest units in the entire game.

yes to all, all have worked out for me.

Any 2 level ruin will give the wraithlord cover. Also the avatar, also any tank, also other wraithlords (for instance, if you bring an all-comers list to a tourny, face a tank-heavy army, have 2 AT lords and 1 anti horde lord, you can put the horde lord between the enemy whatever and give the AT lord cover). Staggered deployment of any 7+ model infantry unit on a low rise will collectively obscure the wraithlord more than 50%. Finding cover for a wraithlord is only hard in the light of how easy it is to get other units cover - that doesn't mean finding cover is actually difficult, people are just stupid.

You put a sword on lords you will have sit in cover because 10 points is a small price to massively increase the effectiveness of a wraithlord in combat. Sadly, that massive increase makes them mediocre.

You keep citing the fact that T4 can't wound them as some sort of advantage... I have yet to meet anyone who has found that an obstacle, given that anything that can wound a WL typically denies armor saves. Boyz mobs will demolish a wraithlord because the nob can't be singled out and only a complete slow of an ork player will somehow allow you to assault his ork mob and avoid the PK.

Why would you assault a tank? the only tanks wraithlords will find are transports - because shooty tanks don't cross the table. I can't think of anything sitting in a transport the wraithlord wants to deal with besides guardsmen in a chimera.

The advantage of a T8 unit is not that S4 can't wound it, it is that S8 needs a 4+ to wound it (instead of a 2+).

I will unequivocally state - if someone is completely unable to find cover for two wraithlords, they are a bad general. AT weapons platforms are fairly static. So are wraithlords. Its a line. put something on it.

Gwyidion wrote:Any 2 level ruin will give the wraithlord cover. Also the avatar, also any tank, also other wraithlords (for instance, if you bring an all-comers list to a tourny, face a tank-heavy army, have 2 AT lords and 1 anti horde lord, you can put the horde lord between the enemy whatever and give the AT lord cover). Staggered deployment of any 7+ model infantry unit on a low rise will collectively obscure the wraithlord more than 50%. Finding cover for a wraithlord is only hard in the light of how easy it is to get other units cover - that doesn't mean finding cover is actually difficult, people are just stupid.

Subtle...

Anyway, you must play with terrain that is friendly to WL. Not particularly complicated, as most games I have played avoid terrain like that to keep armies from using BLOS all game long. Secondly, the lower half of a WL makes up a very small portion of it's surface area, and makes it very difficult to hide. I would also like to add, in order to avoid further argument, that people can interpret the cover rules in different ways. I usually don't run into problems figuring it out, mainly because I don't feel like it suits the WL to easily gain cover.

I suppose that you could say a foot behind a building constituted cover for a WL, but I don't feel it is any different to Modeling for advantage, and pretty bad-mannered.

One large building on each side of the board is pretty standard, if any at all.

You put a sword on lords you will have sit in cover because 10 points is a small price to massively increase the effectiveness of a wraithlord in combat. Sadly, that massive increase makes them mediocre.

I would consider another gun a much better investment. If the WL is not taking advantage of movement, and remains static, there is more than likely to be something to engage them effectively. For 25 points instead of 10, you can simply make the WL a static turret, with the capability to outshoot cover saves, via smoke launchers mainly. Making them mediocre, instead of focusing on a strong suit, just seems ineffective.

You keep citing the fact that T4 can't wound them as some sort of advantage... I have yet to meet anyone who has found that an obstacle, given that anything that can wound a WL typically denies armor saves. Boyz mobs will demolish a wraithlord because the nob can't be singled out and only a complete slow of an ork player will somehow allow you to assault his ork mob and avoid the PK.

That is perfectly fine, and why I would run 3 Swordlords, backed up by counter assault units. Without the waagh, which you only get once per game, the Wraithlord moves the exact same distance into assault, which is to say, 1 ft.

Why would you assault a tank? the only tanks wraithlords will find are transports - because shooty tanks don't cross the table. I can't think of anything sitting in a transport the wraithlord wants to deal with besides guardsmen in a chimera.

Or a LR dropping off termies, and the fact that you can use them to block lanes from transports (by turn one I can reliably bring the WL 21 inches into the map, putting them solidly in position to counter transport movement). There are many reasons someone would have to push forward, and taking out transports on turn two isn't half bad. In a game that can easily span 5 turns, keeping tanks alive can matter a lot. So you either push forward, and have to encounter at least one WL, or you sit back while your opponent forces you against your board edge.

WL are a bit like linebackers, simply because they won't stop much of anything that is consistently faster than them.

The advantage of a T8 unit is not that S4 can't wound it, it is that S8 needs a 4+ to wound it (instead of a 2+).

I will unequivocally state - if someone is completely unable to find cover for two wraithlords, they are a bad general. AT weapons platforms are fairly static. So are wraithlords. Its a line. put something on it.

This defies logic.

Terrain varies immensely, and has a huge effect on the game. I mostly prefer maps, and play on maps that are not dense. A couple of buildings is fun, but it wont provide constant cover for 2 WL, at least not with the ability to be invulnerable to LOS problems.

Sartharis wrote:I would like to know if certain combinations are good:

DA with bladestorm and Exarch with two catapults.
In Wave serpent with spiritstone and shuriken cannons.
Accompanied by Farseer which joins them.

Are pathfinders any good?

Also Two wraithlords with wriathsword and BL and the second one with wraithsword and EML, accompanied by Farseer with warlocks (If yes what combination of spells is good?).

Is it worth taking harlequins with troupe master and shadowseer?

What about a fire prism?

And finally, Is it smart to take Striking Scorpions?

Good questions.
DA with bladestorm in a Serpent with stones and shuricannon is a decent choice.
There are no need for a Farseer to accompany such a unit. She can doom the enemy from far.
Pathfinders are good if you do not play a fully mech army. In the latter case, static units would give the enemy a focus which you do not want.
Harlies are good in a foot slogging army as a counter-strike unit.
Fire Prisms often miss the target but they can also ram, tank shock or contest objectives.
Scorpions should be taken as outflankers. They are not mandatory in an Eldar army.