Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Im pretty sure I know the answer, but are Heavy Stubbers worth the 10 pts they cost? Being a defensive weapon I can see that they'd actually be used, but I dont have any 5th ed table time yet, so I have no clue if theyre worth it or not.


Part 2- I really want to have heavy stubs mounted on my chimeras for aesthetic and fluff reasons, but if they dont work, do you see it being a problem in games if I only have them on for cosmetic reasons? (with a clear explanation to opponents that they are not 'functional')

The Chimeras on my in-progress Catachan army will get some heavy stubbers for sure. I think they are especially great for the Chimeras you use defensively, for castling - this way, a single 65 pts tank can fire 9 shots at 36"! Sure, only the Multilaser is worth something AT-wise, but the amount of shots will be useful against infantry. That you can move 6" and still fire the thing just makes it even better.

On assault Chimeras trying to get melta and flamer squads to the enemy ASAP they are not that viable, I think. Those Chimeras will move 12" and pop smoke most of the time, making stubber use rather unprobable.

So, defensive - yes, offensive - rather not, in my opinion.


On the modeling question: I guess for friendly games it should be no problem. The stubber is a quite large weapon, though, and people will probably think more than once "hey, theres a big frigging gun on the tank, why isn't that shooting?" In my case, I modeled a turret guy who has detachable gunner arms with stubber that can be exchanged with binocular-and-waving-gesture arms via magnets. May sound like lots of work, but it actually didn't take that long - and now I have all WYSIWYG options I need for that thing.

I personally tend to find something else to spend the points on. but incase i ever do break down and use them, i've started magnetizing them to their mounts. then i just glue the mount in place on the turret.

If you have the points then go for it. That's how two of my Chimeras ended up with stubbers; I simply couldn't find anywhere else to spend 20 points.

With regards aestheics: If you tell your opponent pre-game then it should be fine. Just tell them the Guard forgot to bring the ammo or something.

L. Wrex

Well, I am going for a Tallarn based army thats been on campaign for a while- so runnin out of stubber ammo is a viable excuse

Or, since I modeling them with water-jackets on the barrels, they dont have the water to spare to use them

I've recently started taking Stubbers on all my Chimeras and they are golden. They are defensive weapons so they always get to shoot if anything does, are S4 so wound effectively and the 36" range is a perfect synergy with the Multi-laser and Heavy Bolter.

Compared to the options 10 pts buys (dozer blade, Storm Bolter or HK) it seems like the best use of the points. Is effective most every turn, has a high rate of fire and great range.

Seeing five Chimeras lay down a full volley of Multilaser, Heavy Bolter and Heavy Stubber fire is a thing of pure beauty.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:If you have the points then go for it. That's how two of my Chimeras ended up with stubbers; I simply couldn't find anywhere else to spend 20 points.

Right. For their points, stubbers are unfortunately cruddy. That said, it is now far more difficult to fritter away a few remaining extra points than it was in the old codex.

I used to run a chimera with 2x HB + stubber (and the armored fist inside also had a heavy bolter), which used to do some very unfortunate things to light infantry, but those times have mostly passed. The times of light infantry slowly moving across the battlefield out of cover are basically gone.

Now those points get heavy bolters, flamers and meltaguns elsewhere in my army, which are better at their respective jobs. I do miss the coolness factor of my 4x machine gun tank, though:

I can see them being useful. It is just the problem that it is a bit too expensive. There is too much good stuff that can be added instead of loading up all your chimeras with stubbers. If you have some pts to spare, then go for it, it is a cool looking weapon, and it has its uses, but don't start by putting pts in stubbers.

I'm not a fan of throwing 10 points towards three S4 AP6 shots, there are usually better bargains to be found. But if they are really aesthetically pleasing to you, they are not a terrible choice, so it's not like you'll lose all your games because you took them.

As for dozer blades, nothing makes me more mad about this codex than their price at 10. Why is it 2x that of Marine dozers? I swear, I have about a 98% immobilization rate when it comes to terrain.

Ailaros wrote:

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:If you have the points then go for it. That's how two of my Chimeras ended up with stubbers; I simply couldn't find anywhere else to spend 20 points.

Right. For their points, stubbers are unfortunately cruddy. That said, it is now far more difficult to fritter away a few remaining extra points than it was in the old codex.

I used to run a chimera with 2x HB + stubber (and the armored fist inside also had a heavy bolter), which used to do some very unfortunate things to light infantry, but those times have mostly passed. The times of light infantry slowly moving across the battlefield out of cover are basically gone.

Now those points get heavy bolters, flamers and meltaguns elsewhere in my army, which are better at their respective jobs. I do miss the coolness factor of my 4x machine gun tank, though:

Ya, in the days of armored fists I had stubbers and liked using them. Just wasnt sure how they measured up in 5th ed. Like others have mentioned, they seem like a valid option if all the spec & heavy weapons slots are filled and theres nothign else to conveniently put the points into.

I know they seem like they are not so cost effective but consider:

1 Chimera = 55 points. 3 S6 shots, 3 S5 shots.

Five stubbers = 50 points, 15 S4 shots.

Now against big bugs and high T units you might want those six shots but with an IG army you more than likely already have a multitude of everything from S10 on down through S8 Meltas to S6 Multilasers. What don't you have? High volume S4 shots. Defensive weapons that let you shoot and scoot.

I've recently come to the same conclusion about Valkyries and Vendettas. In my lists I save the tank killing for the other stuff. Vendettas don't put out the hurt unless I move 6" or less... and they are much more exposed and thus more likely to die. The Medusa sits behind the AV12 wall and deals death from down low.

Medusa can't fire indirectly, so it's still exposed to enemy fire.

I don't see how a Valkyrie moving 12" is any less exposed than a Vendetta moving 6". That said, due to the slow pace, their wings are starting to annoy me. I've been looking for a way to convert them into helicopter gunships. Should make them easier to transport and not such a hassle on the table too.

Terminus, I think he meant that you can trace LOS from a medusa's gun over a chimera to an enemy vehicle, but when anything targets your medusa, its hull is completely hidden so it at least counts as obscured.

Stubbers: I'm not a huge fan personally. Obviously if you do take them (and as said, it's not a huge deal either way) only on chimeras, hellhounds, etc - no tanks w/high strength, low AP guns, or tanks made purely for busting vehicles.

If you have nothing better to spend your points on i say go for it, 3 extra shots alongside your multilaser is never a bad thing

Ailaros wrote:

Right. For their points, stubbers are unfortunately cruddy. That said, it is now far more difficult to fritter away a few remaining extra points than it was in the old codex.

I never said they were *worth* the points cost, just that if you had nowhere else to put those leftover points then it can't hurt to throw a few extra guns onto your Chimera.

L. Wrex

Terminus wrote:Medusa can't fire indirectly, so it's still exposed to enemy fire.

I don't see how a Valkyrie moving 12" is any less exposed than a Vendetta moving 6". That said, due to the slow pace, their wings are starting to annoy me. I've been looking for a way to convert them into helicopter gunships. Should make them easier to transport and not such a hassle on the table too.

I never said Medusa fire indirectly. As pointed out above, they just draw line of sight over the shoulder of their Chimera shield. But whether it's a Chimera, Leman Russ, or terrain, the POINT in all this is you can hide the Medusa for the most part and still get the tank busting shot off. With the Vendetta, you cannot. The model sits too high and is too big.

When you take a Valkyrie v. Vendetta, your opponents target priorities change (if he/she knows what they are doing). Taking a Vendetta means an easy AV12 kill for my opponent AND taking out a major tank busting unit. If I take a Valk now my opponent has to choose between allowing the Medusa (which can kill gak from long range) to continue shooting or killing an AV12 transport that doesn't seem like such a threat. If I move the Valk flat out to drop off Melta Vets or a Special Weapons squad that's cool... it's just a transport and I lose no tank killing power AND I get a flat out save. If I use a Vendetta to transport troops and move flat out I just gave up 3 twin linked Lascannon shots to get 3 melta shots... not the best trade and now my junk is hanging out in the wind.

But I digress. Theoryhammer aside, on the real battlefield the Stubber is proving it's worth for me. Put down the calculator and just try them sometime. The next time you face a 14 skimmer Dark Eldar or Nid Swarm army you'll be glad for the extra shots.

It doesn't seem like such a threat because it isn't one.

I am anti stubber. For those points you can just get SO many other goodies in the IG list.

Sometimes it would be great to get a few more shots out of the chimera but let's face it - they are BS 3. Half of the time those shots are going to miss anyway and then you're needing a 4, 5 or (likely) a 6 to even do anything.

If you want more power in your list then try using those 10 points to upgrade a couple of meltas to plasma. This gives you that longer range firebase you're probably looking for.

I like stubbers for the following reason:

wound allocation rules.

For anti-infantry duty causing as many wounds as possible from a single unit increases your chance to "snipe" special/heavy weapons, sergeants, etc.

Sure, those multilasers *can* destroy rhinos, but lets be honest and say that they aren't exactly your first line of defense against AV11... you have heavier firepower for that task.

Something that is over looked is that a stubber provides one more weapon destroyed result before the tank dies. This is helpful if marines are firing a volley of S4 bolters at side armor causing a lot of glancing hits.

Personally I only use them if there is no where else to drop the points. That said, I modeled them on all my old chimeras because I liked the looks.

I like stubbers. They have great synergy with multilasers and they're usually good for another wound or two. It's really fun to crack open a transport with the squad inside the chimera, and then wail on the squad ejected from it with the chimera itself.

Personally, I hate the stubbers on the chimera. I'd much rather spend those points on dozer blades for them or krak grenades for the squads inside of them (granted I run a more offensive list).

daedalus wrote: It's really fun to crack open a transport with the squad inside the chimera, and then wail on the squad ejected from it with the chimera itself.

I bet it would be fun, if it were legal. All a vehicles's weapons must fire at a single target unit, which means that you can't be rediculously lucky and blow up the chimera with a multilaser and then turn around and shoot the squad with the stubber.

And I hadn't thought about the weapon destroyed thing before. 10 points seems a little steep just to keep up some amount of firepower on an otherwise low firepower unit.

The real problem with stubbers is that they're so cool, but don't have a real niche to fill (instead, it's relegated to support roles). It's more of a guilty pleasure, like powerswords on officers. Something deep down tells you to do it even though your head realises the futility of a single S3 power weapon. Maybe if they made them cheaper, or made them twin-linked like DKoK. I don't think I'd be able to resist running around with doublestubbers.

---

Heh, VDR puts a vehicle with a chimera chassis armed with 10 front-mounted heavy stubbers at 70 points.

Must... resist...

Ailaros:

I believe what daedalus was referring to was using the squad embarked upon the Chimera to use their anti-tank weapons to destroy an enemy transport, and then using the Chimera's suite of anti-infantry weapons to shoot up the now-exposed enemy unit. Having a Heavy Stubber multiplies the potential casualties by 50%, going from 6 shots to 9 shots, with the additional protection against 'friction' (in the context of vehicles: Destruction via Weapon Destroyed and Immobilized results).

Seeing as the squad embarked upon the Chimera and the Chimera itself are different units, it is entirely legal for that order of shooting to occur. A squad of Veterans armed with Grenade Launchers and a Missile Launcher can make for some surprisingly effective anti-vehicle fire, for example.

Incidentally, you know why Dakka underlines "rediculous" with red when you're typing your reply? That's because it's spelled "ridiculous". If you're mis-spelling on purpose, why not go with something colourful, like "recockulous", or cute, like "redonkulous".

Taking missile launchers is redonkulous.

Missile Launchers are perfectly cromulent if you're also taking three Grenade Launchers.

darkdm wrote:Personally, I hate the stubbers on the chimera. I'd much rather spend those points on dozer blades for them or krak grenades for the squads inside of them (granted I run a more offensive list).

Amen to that. Despite the seemingly long odds, I fail 5/6 of my immobilization checks. Why oh why do we pay two times more than the beakies?

Nurglitch wrote:Missile Launchers are perfectly cromulent if you're also taking three Grenade Launchers.

For IG veterans, that setup with forward sentries embiggens the smallest man.

Nurglitch wrote:Ailaros:

I believe what daedalus was referring to was using the squad embarked upon the Chimera to use their anti-tank weapons to destroy an enemy transport, and then using the Chimera's suite of anti-infantry weapons to shoot up the now-exposed enemy unit.

Yup, this was the one. Hmm, perhaps I should strive for further clarity in the future...