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Wich is best for scout sentinels?
How bout armored ones?

for me, Multilaser. if i have the points an autocannon.
i don't use the Armored ones. and Very rarely use the scout ones.

I know you are trying to keep it simple, but this question can be answered in many different ways. And each way could be correct based on the contents of the rest of your list.

If your list contained 6x hydras, then additional autocannons wouldn't be all that neccessary. If your list had 6-10 chimeras then the multi-laser would add very little to your army.

if you planned to outflank the sentinels nearly every game because you were playing a very specific kind of army then that would inform the decision. If you planned to deploy your sentinels behind chimeras at the back table edge in order to get cover and still fire, then range would play a very important role.

If you want to have the sentinels be your starting point, and then build lists completely around them, I would suggest the autocannon for the scout sentinel and then either the autocannon or lascannon for the armored sentinel. But you may find in building the rest of the list, that you have a hole that needs filled, it could be heavy flamers or plasma. in that case you'd need to switch.

Good point, well i have two hydras and am planning on some vendettas.
I personally preffer to have missile launchers on scout sentinels for some versityle and mobile guns but wanted to get some advice from others as well.

I usually run mine with the standard multilaser, for cheapness sake.

If you don't want or can't afford a vendetta, lascannons are okay for outflanking side and rear armor.

I usually don't worry about the gun on the armored sentinel, it's primary purpose is to run face first into enemy infantry, not shoot.

I refer you to this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/284476.page which pretty much asks the same sort of questions.

Regards.

L. Wrex

Shep wrote:I know you are trying to keep it simple, but this question can be answered in many different ways. And each way could be correct based on the contents of the rest of your list.

If your list contained 6x hydras, then additional autocannons wouldn't be all that neccessary. If your list had 6-10 chimeras then the multi-laser would add very little to your army.

if you planned to outflank the sentinels nearly every game because you were playing a very specific kind of army then that would inform the decision. If you planned to deploy your sentinels behind chimeras at the back table edge in order to get cover and still fire, then range would play a very important role.

If you want to have the sentinels be your starting point, and then build lists completely around them, I would suggest the autocannon for the scout sentinel and then either the autocannon or lascannon for the armored sentinel. But you may find in building the rest of the list, that you have a hole that needs filled, it could be heavy flamers or plasma. in that case you'd need to switch.

for me though i wouldn't run anything but the ML or AC. i just don't trust one shot BS 3 lascannons and plasma cannons.

alarmingrick wrote:for me though i wouldn't run anything but the ML or AC. i just don't trust one shot BS 3 lascannons and plasma cannons.

i don't really mean to go after you on this, but the affect of ballistic skill on any gun is linear. Its a very common fallacy that the more expensive a gun is the less good it is in the hands of BS3. A lascannon costs twice as much as an autocannon because it has capabilities that exceed the autocannon (armor 13, armor 14, feel no pain, 2+ armor) while also being competent at doing the jobs the autocannon does. If an auotcannon can't accomplish the task you set for it, it doesn't matter that it costs 10 points less. Its shots are just as affected by the lack of ballistic skill as well. People just take comfort in holding and throwing more dice.

For me, I take lascannons on my sentinels, because I have no real need for autocannons, I already have 6x hydras with a cover save. Other light vehicle and infantry killing is amply covered by my 9 multi-lasers and 6 heavy bolters on chimeras. Vendettas don't fit my list paradigm, and so in come the lascannon armed armored sentinels. A different list would have different needs. I might only hit half the time with those lascannons, but with my 6x sentinels and my 6x mechanized infantry squads shooting 12 lascannons, I get a new kind of accuracy.

in other words, don't be deterred from taking a gun because of its cost. If its the one you need, take it. The base cost of the platform that is holding the gun is always so cheap in IG armies that the final output of firepower meets or exceeds shooting from any other army. And there is nothing worse than lining up your 40 autocannon IG army against land raider spam or a blood angel/iron hands armor 13 spam army.

This one guy runs 2 Plasma cannon sentinals as a MEQ killer, assault unit intercepter and they are effective.

they once held BC Stern in close combat for 4 assault phases. Bad rolling on my part, but still they stood there.

Shep wrote:

alarmingrick wrote:for me though i wouldn't run anything but the ML or AC. i just don't trust one shot BS 3 lascannons and plasma cannons.

i don't really mean to go after you on this, but the affect of ballistic skill on any gun is linear. Its a very common fallacy that the more expensive a gun is the less good it is in the hands of BS3. A lascannon costs twice as much as an autocannon because it has capabilities that exceed the autocannon (armor 13, armor 14, feel no pain, 2+ armor) while also being competent at doing the jobs the autocannon does. If an auotcannon can't accomplish the task you set for it, it doesn't matter that it costs 10 points less. Its shots are just as affected by the lack of ballistic skill as well. People just take comfort in holding and throwing more dice.

For me, I take lascannons on my sentinels, because I have no real need for autocannons, I already have 6x hydras with a cover save. Other light vehicle and infantry killing is amply covered by my 9 multi-lasers and 6 heavy bolters on chimeras. Vendettas don't fit my list paradigm, and so in come the lascannon armed armored sentinels. A different list would have different needs. I might only hit half the time with those lascannons, but with my 6x sentinels and my 6x mechanized infantry squads shooting 12 lascannons, I get a new kind of accuracy.

in other words, don't be deterred from taking a gun because of its cost. If its the one you need, take it. The base cost of the platform that is holding the gun is always so cheap in IG armies that the final output of firepower meets or exceeds shooting from any other army. And there is nothing worse than lining up your 40 autocannon IG army against land raider spam or a blood angel/iron hands armor 13 spam army.

okay, point taken. i run a max of 2 Hydras, but would still run a Sentinel with an AC. it's just too good if you can get some good rear armor shots. but all that said, i find if i start running any of the Sentinels, they are going to take slots my Vendettas, hellhounds, and Devil Dogs will be using. that's why i rarely use them.

My money goes no autocannons. Yes they have less punch. And if you already have medium firepower in other areas and lack heavy hitters then lascannons might be better. But autocannons are really versitile, and you can get heavy firepower elsewere as well. Autocannons are great because they put out lots of decent strength shots.

If you plan on outflanking the sentinels, I wouldn't disregard the heavy flamer either. A heavy flamer sentinel is a cheap way to get to soft backfield units. Having one in your army might be worth it just to deny the board egde to your opponents soft firepower units. A flamer template followed by a charge can wipe or at least lock up a lot of units for an entire game. If I had any fast attack slots left, I would go this route. Outflanking autocannon is also decent for side armour shots. And it will not be gimped if you enter from the wrong side (but you're taking the astropath anyways, right?)

In short: autocannon or heavy flamer for scout sentinel
IMO, armoured sentinel has a very narrow role to fill in the IG army, and is probably the last choice I would go for in FA

Illumini wrote:If you plan on outflanking the sentinels, I wouldn't disregard the heavy flamer either. A heavy flamer sentinel is a cheap way to get to soft backfield units. Having one in your army might be worth it just to deny the board egde to your opponents soft firepower units. A flamer template followed by a charge can wipe or at least lock up a lot of units for an entire game. If I had any fast attack slots left, I would go this route. Outflanking autocannon is also decent for side armour shots. And it will not be gimped if you enter from the wrong side (but you're taking the astropath anyways, right?)

In short: autocannon or heavy flamer for scout sentinel
IMO, armoured sentinel has a very narrow role to fill in the IG army, and is probably the last choice I would go for in FA

Agreed

Outflanking HFs sound like fun not to mention the awesome look of flamer sentinels.

AV12 Sentinels are amazing. If your guard it might not be a bad idea to add a single squad of 2 w/whichever weapon you need to help hold up certain units that no guard could fight in CC. They are amazing for taking things like Bloodcrushers out of the fight. Even keeping non-warboss led nobs tied up for a few turns (assuming they don't get the charge). AV12 are actually my first choice nowadays if I head back to my guard. To many scary units out there I need to keep away from my little infantry dude

armored sentinel with plasma cannon. Not only is it powerful, it becomes a magnet for enemy fire, and if your opponent's shooting at it, he's not shooting at anyone else.

armored sentinel with plasma cannon. Not only is it powerful, it becomes a magnet for enemy fire, and if your opponent's shooting at it, he's not shooting at anyone else.

The problem with sentinels is that they carry heavy weapons, and heavy weapons got worse. As such, you're paying a bunch of points on things that could be more effective elsewhere.

The only sentinels I'd consider taking anymore are heavy flamer scout sentinels. They're cheap enough to retain their nuisance factor and with a heavy flamer, they actually stand a chance to kill something. That or you could take advantage of the fear factor of outflanking lascannons, but once your opponents figured out that pony's one trick they're not going to get that much mileage.

Otherwise, with the scout I'd take special weapons elsewhere than heavy weapons here and the AV12 sentinel is a list-building joke. Sure, if they forgot the powerfists or meltabombs, there will be lulz with tying up units that cost less than they do (so really, you're the loser), but the idea of spending the amount of points on a russ on two plasma cannons on AV12 instead seems a little strange to me.

I run 2x2 scout sentinels to outflank with an astropath. Two of them have missile launchers for their flexibility, and the other two have heavy flamers to burn ranged units out of cover. They also have krak missiles to get a lucky rear/side shot on a tank or T4 IC.
I mostly took them over vendettas/bane wolfs because they fit my jungle fighters army theme.