Noob Question - Ork battle wagons and turrets.

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**steam_bucky**

Lets say you model your own battle wagon, and you put all the weapons it carries in one massive turret - if everything is a modelled turret that can turn, then can it use like turret on games workshop vehicle? is this legal?

I believe this has been discussed before, but i couldn't find a link. ( and is there an official 40k forum? - i couldn't fine one )

**Gwar!**

steam_bucky wrote:Lets say you model your own battle wagon, and you put all the weapons it carries in one massive turret - if everything is a modelled turret that can turn, then can it use like turret on games workshop vehicle? is this legal?

I believe this has been discussed before, but i couldn't find a link. ( and is there an official 40k forum? - i couldn't fine one )

No. You use however the vehicle is actually modeled unless a codex tells you otherwise.

**Blitza da warboy**

gwar is right. one way you can get by this is by converting the turrets into being each on top of each other. sort of like GW`s battlewagon with the kannon/zaap gun which on top of it, there was a big shoota.

**steam_bucky**

So I can convert the turret placement but not make a new turret to house everything.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have more questions, and thanks for your help thus far.

There are many weapon configurations for the battle wagon - how do you know which guns go where? Which are turret mounted, which are hull mounted. I own the codex and there is nothing saying where anythings is.

**nosferatu1001**

As was said above: the ONLY determiner, if the codex is silent, is HOW they are modelled.

**kill dem stunties**

Also it shouldn't be too big of a prob, best to run a wagon with just 1 or 2 big shootas, and those are only there as immobilization protection on weapon destroyed results.

**steam_bucky**

nosferatu1001 wrote:As was said above: the ONLY determiner, if the codex is silent, is HOW they are modelled.

This Noob is confused. The codex is silent on this on the placement of weapons. The only guide I have to go by is the battle wagon model witch has 2 turrets and does not suit all gun configurations possible for a battle wagon. ( for example you could take a KillKannon, a kannon and 4 rokkit launchas - thats 6 weapons )

If the rule of thumbs is it how the unit is modelled when the codex is silent, then which below is correct.

------------
The unit has 2 turrets, with a single guns in each. All other weapons are hull mounted? ( which i have to model on? )

OR

I can model the turrets to contain all weapons in the battle wagon. ( id have to make a new turret really )
------------

Sorry to be a pain.

**HoverBoy**

No what nosferatu said was – since the rules don't say how the weapons are mounted, the way you model them determines theyr fire arc, so if you do model them all on turrets they can all rotate, if you model them to be mounted on the hull somewhere they can only shoot things on that side of the vehicle.

**steam_bucky**

HoverBoy wrote:No what nosferatu said was – since the rules don't say how the weapons are mounted, the way you model them determines theyr fire arc, so if you do model them all on turrets they can all rotate, if you model them to be mounted on the hull somewhere they can only shoot things on that side of the vehicle.

Thank you for the clarification guys - much appreciated.

**Geemoney**

Gwar! wrote:
steam_bucky wrote:Lets say you model your own battle wagon, and you put all the weapons it carries in one massive turret - if everything is a modelled turret that can turn, then can it use like turret on games workshop vehicle? is this legal?

I believe this has been discussed before, but i couldn't find a link. ( and is there an official 40k forum? - i couldn't fine one )

No. You use however the vehicle is actually modeled unless a codex tells you otherwise.

Where in the rule book does it state this? Not trying to create an argument I just want to know.

**Gwar!**

Geemoney wrote:
Gwar! wrote:
steam_bucky wrote:Lets say you model your own battle wagon, and you put all the weapons it carries in one massive turret - if everything is a modelled turret that can turn, then can it use like turret on games workshop vehicle? is this legal?

I believe this has been discussed before, but i couldn't find a link. ( and is there an official 40k forum? - i couldn't fine one )

No. You use however the vehicle is actually modeled unless a codex tells you otherwise.

Where in the rule book does it state this? Not trying to create an argument I just want to know.

It says it in the Rulebook FAQ. The rulebook itself actually only permits the use of citadel models, thus making conversions or scratch built models a moot point.

**Geemoney**

The rulebook clearly covers a scratch built model. But what about a conversion built out of citadel models? Does a bit of greenstuff and a different arm make something not a citadel miniature?
btw I did not see that entry in the FAQ.

**insaniak**

Geemoney wrote:The rulebook clearly covers a scratch built model. But what about a conversion built out of citadel models? Does a bit of greenstuff and a different arm make something not a citadel miniature?

The rulebook doesn't address scratch-builds or conversions at all. It simply refers to 'models' as being 'the Citadel miniatures used to play games of Warhammer 40000'

From this, it can be construed that we're only supposed to use the standard models supplied by GW for the purpose... but I would only recommend making that argument against the guy pulling out a model obviously converted to take abuse the rules, as it's a shaky one.

Geemoney wrote:btw I did not see that entry in the FAQ.

The guy who wrote the Rulebook FAQ wrote:Q. On page 59, the rules for the arc of fire of
pintle-mounted (or bolt-on) weapons address
those mounted on turrets and those mounted
directly on the hull. But what about those
mounted on smaller structures (like a Rhino’s
cupola) that look like they can rotate 360º, even
though they aren’t proper turrets?
A. Remember that the rule is: if it looks like you
can point the gun at it, then you can, even if it’s
glued in place’. The rest is just a set of guidelines
about the arcs of fire of weapons glued in place,
and does not cover all possible weapons
mounting and vehicles. If the structure the gun is
pintle-mounted on is obviously capable of
rotating 360º, like in the case of a Rhino’s cupola,
then it should be treated as having a 360º arc of
fire. However, if you mount the same storm
bolter on a Razorback, even though it still can
rotate 360º, it won’t obviously be able to fire
through the Razorback’s main turret, and so it
will have a ‘blind spot’. In the same way, the
shuriken catapult mounted under the hull of a
Wave Serpent, Falcon, etc. looks like it can rotate
360º, but it does not look like it can be fired
through the main hull right behind it, so we
normally play that it can be fired roughly in the
180º to the vehicle’s front, which seems like an
acceptable compromise.

**Redbeard**

The ork codex has some answers here too.

Q: How are the boomgun and other weapons mounted on a Looted Wagon?

A: Players are free to mount the weapons on their converted or scratch-built models however they see fit (i.e. in a turret, sponson, hull or otherwise), as long as this is absolutely clear by looking at the model.

The answer to this question is not limited to the Looted Wagon, and encompasses all converted and scratch-built models.

So, if you want one big turret, make one big turret.

**HoverBoy**

And call it the dakka nest

**Geemoney**

@insaniak: What I meant was scratch built models aren't covered under what can be considered a model for the game according to the rulebook.
And redbeard's reference clearly talks about what you can and cannot do with conversions, your quote only really talks about LOS issues, not where you can or cannot put a gun.
So according to redbeards quote I can do whatever I want to with a conversion....

**Redbeard**

That is true, you can do whatever you want with your conversions. However, if you take this to extremes, you will find that no one wants to play with you.

Mounting battlewagon weapons on turrets doesn't count as that extreme, though. All the weapon options that come with a battlewagon are mounted in various turrets and have 360 degrees of fire. If you want to consolidate them onto one turret, no one will mind. Knock yourself out, make it look good and orky!