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First one, looking at the following scenario:



Green dots = infantry
Red dot = Independant character
Black dots = infantry

If I were to assault the green blob with the black dots, following the normal assault procedures, during the pile in, would the red dots absolutely have to be moved as soon as there is space to move (between green bases) or could the controlling player decide to move green dots instead to prevent the red character from getting into base to base contact?

The above scenario happened where the red dots was a commissar lord, the green were an imperial conscript squad and the blacks were my seraphims. Obviously this is a massive tarpit if the IC can somehow be prevented from ever getting into base to base contact.


As for the second question, if you have a Platoon Command Squad that takes the Medic upgrade, do the IC that attach themselves to the squad also benefit from the Feel no Pain special rule? My take is No based on the rules wording, but I still let my opponent get it since I wasnt completely sure and he ended up attaching 5 eviscerator priests and Yarrick to his squad (which felt very abusive).

Voldrak wrote:First one, looking at the following scenario:



Green dots = infantry
Red dot = Independant character
Black dots = infantry

If I were to assault the green blob with the black dots, following the normal assault procedures, during the pile in, would the red dots absolutely have to be moved as soon as there is space to move (between green bases) or could the controlling player decide to move green dots instead to prevent the red character from getting into base to base contact?

The above scenario happened where the red dots was a commissar lord, the green were an imperial conscript squad and the blacks were my seraphims. Obviously this is a massive tarpit if the IC can somehow be prevented from ever getting into base to base contact.


As for the second question, if you have a Platoon Command Squad that takes the Medic upgrade, do the IC that attach themselves to the squad also benefit from the Feel no Pain special rule? My take is No based on the rules wording, but I still let my opponent get it since I wasnt completely sure and he ended up attaching 5 eviscerator priests and Yarrick to his squad (which felt very abusive).

The IC has to move first. If it cannot move into BTB with anything, it simply moves to maintain coherency and cannot again move that assault phase until the pile in moves. Just remember that if the IC cannot be hit, he cannot hit back either.

As for the 2nd, Yes, they do.

1) technically yes, the pile in moves are done in any order that they want and if they can prevent the IC from moving into base there is no place to move into base its legal.

as a side note i forced a dreadnought out of combat due to casualty removal/pile ins. basically by carefully removing casualties and him not being careful the dreadnought could not perform the pile in because of base size and was forced out of hand to hand.

2) depends on the wording of the FNP rule. if it says bestows to the "unit they are with" then the IC gains the benefit as he is part of the unit as long as they are attached. if the wording is say like "to the command squad" then they dont as the limit of command sqaud precludes the IC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:The IC has to move first. If it cannot move into BTB with anything, it simply moves to maintain coherency and cannot again move that assault phase until the pile in moves. Just remember that if the IC cannot be hit, he cannot hit back either.

As for the 2nd, Yes, they do.

I dont see anything on p34 (moving assaulting models) or p40 (pile ins) that says the IC has to move first.

Alright.

The commissar lord was only there to prevent the conscripts from being broken as they protect his tanks from assault units. Since it couldnt move between due to lack of spaces between the bases of the conscripts around him, he was able to keep it safe while the rest of the squad tarpits anything getting into assault. Good strategy I guess.

As for number two, friend had Straken, Kell, Nork, Yarrick and 5 eviscerator priests all getting feel no pain. He's gonna be thrilled to learn this is legal. It worked in my favor since the game was KP and I just wanted the 5 priests dying, but that squad still soaked a massive amount of firepower over the course of 5 turns before I could finish it off with my sisters.

My friend has been tailoring his lists to fight my Sisters so I guess Ill just surprise him and bring my CSM to the fight next time.

lixulana wrote:I dont see anything on p34 (moving assaulting models) or p40 (pile ins) that says the IC has to move first.

That's because you are not looking at the right part of the rulebook. You need to look at page 49, the part about Independent Characters in Assaults.

It helps to be right when you are being snarky!

time to make my rules index for 5th edition i think. and re-read each sentence in the rule book.

thanks gwar.

It's not pile in moves where the IC has to move first. It's the defenders react moves.

Arschbombe wrote:It's not pile in moves where the IC has to move first. It's the defenders react moves.

It is Pile in moves as well.

Page 49 (Again) wrote:When a unit is reacting to being assaulted, or making a pile-in move , independent characters that have joined the unit must move before other friendly models in order to get into base contact with an enemy if at all possible