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In recent games I have really seen the advantage of target saturation. That being said this list is an attempt to be balanced, leaning slightly towards an objective game but still have punch for anhialation games.

I have found that like most people when you run that landspeeder up to that leman russ it just happens to miss at the most inconvenient time. or that tac squad that piles out to shoot the dreadnaught goes "uh-oh" and then get assaulted with only the hope of a single powerfist, if it gonna go wrong it does so at the worst of times

so then I had an . even though it goes slightly against my paint scheme of the good 'ole boys in blue i said what the just don't paint Vulkan green as he is the key to this list.

another thing that is "erksome" is TH/SS termies with a chaplain. if they get assaulted or the the proceeding turns of a multiple round combat they really lose their momentum and fizzle out as they begin missing with only two attacks, and LC just lack the "BOOM, in your face" punch and versatility of the TH. this is where Vulkan helps again as he makes the THs and all burny, melta stuff mastercrafted/TL.

So enough of by Jibba Jaba and to the new list i have.



HQ:
Vulkan He'stan 190


Elite:
5 TH/SS termies in landraider 450

5 SB/PF termies 200

Troop:
10x tac. squad, rhino, ML, MG, PF 235

10x tac. squad, rhino, ML, MG, PF 235

10x tac. squad, rhino, ML, MG, PF 235

5x scout squad, camo cloaks, teleport homer, sniper rifles if I feel like 105


Fast Attack:
Landspeeder, MM 60

Landspeeder, MM 60


Heavy Support:
Vindicator 115

Vindicator 115


2000 pts.




Idea is that I really seemed to be lacking in the anti-armour area at my local games, and this seems to be more effective as the melta stuff is TL. all my melta stuff usually missed and i would just get the hurting the next turn from the vehicle that i just missed. I know people are going to say what's with the scouts, I want to park them in cover next to my home objective (if i have one) and have them sit there with a 2+ cover save. If anyone decides to pick on them I have the second set of standard termies to help out. Anyway this is my attempt at a list with descent can opener potential (PW and TL melta), while still maintaining anti-infantry, target saturation, mobility and objective holding.

All critique and advice is welcome.

On a side note there arent any ork or tyranid players at my store, all marines, gaurd,and some tau and chaos. I think I've seen one tyranid player there a whopping 2 times.

For being a Vulkan list, you have very little Melta or Flamer. Vindicators, while good, could be substituted out for another Land Raider, and your PF/SB Termies can be switched to TH/SS. Put a MM on both LR's. Drop one Tactical Squad, give your Speeders a Heavy Flamer to go along with their MM, and add in an extra Speeder to each squad. That should keep you around 2000.

those are good ideas, thanks. I wanted to stick with a large troop core as it has really worked well for me lately. I saw Vulkan more as a supplement to my army not so much as the anchor. I wanted to use him so I could get that extra boost in the tank popping but still keep the benefits of the chaplain(with more punch though). another land raider would be nice and pack the 2nd termies in it. but would the 2nd landraider be well suited for point and shoot roll parked next to scouts? the tac squads would be gone as they are capturing objectives, the scouts would need some support i think. I would have a squad of termies in an assault tank waiting at home base and if i move them forward instead i would have to leave a tac squad back in support leaving only 1 tac squad for objectives.

skysky wrote:
HQ:
Vulkan He'stan 190


Elite:
5 TH/SS termies in landraider 450

5 SB/PF termies 200

Troop:
10x tac. squad, rhino, ML, MG, PF 235

10x tac. squad, rhino, ML, MG, PF 235

10x tac. squad, rhino, ML, MG, PF 235

5x scout squad, camo cloaks, teleport homer, sniper rifles if I feel like 105


Fast Attack:
Landspeeder, MM 60

Landspeeder, MM 60


Heavy Support:
Vindicator 115

Vindicator 115


2000 pts.

Dump the pf's in the tac squads. I would also change their load out. I would equip 2 squads with flamers/mm and one squad with melta/ml. I would use the melta/ml tac squad as a static scoring unit. Get rid of the scout squad. You should not need more than 3 scoring units. That should save a good chunk of points.

I would also dump the standard termies and add a couple more assault termies, bringing the assault termies to 7. That should save some more points.

I personally don't like vindi's. I would replace them with ac/lc sponson preds for long rang anti-tank.

I would then add a librarian with null zone/avenger and run him with the termies/vulkan squad in the lrc. Make sure the land raider is a crusader and add a mm to it.

Make the speeders mm/hf and add another one, bringing your total to 3 mm/hf speeders.

This should be 1900pts even.

Almost every unit now takes advantage of vulkan's special rules except for the predators, but they do provide some good long range anti-tank support.

All good points, thanks. I dont want to gear too heavy for an anti tank list as I still want a balance. So three troops is enough you guys think? What no horde marines .

If I drop the scouts and normal termies I have 305 points. I agree that I should go ahead and max out the speeders, 3 twin linked fast meltas that can DS is pretty sweet. I dont realy like Typhoons as the speeders are somewhat fragile and I dont like to spend too many points on them. 3 cheap TL MM buzzing around is enough I think combined with a TL MG in each squad. Now for the other 245 points.....another tac squad? How about 2 dreads, that sticks with target saturation as there is more than 1 of them, and that whole 2 is 3 times as good as 1 thing, right? But I think that is where I'm headed if 3 full tac squads can do the job. I have 245 points to work with so let the s come forth! Thanks again for input guys.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I just did the math and with the 245 points I can take 2 MM dreds, 2 flamers to the speeders, a MM to the Landraider and a dozer blade somewhere amongst my tanks.


Or should I snag a TF cannon and 1 dred with 40 points left. The 2 MM dreds would again capitalize on vulkan but again I dont want to leave a hole in my list. I was looking for a slight boost with the meltas while keepnig the rerolls of a chaplain with more survivability. I have already done that so I dont want to go too anti tank. So possibly 2 dreds with assault cannon. Just think of all the smash-happy goodness that there is. Powerfists, thunderhammers, dred hammers OH MY! Yeah i did just say that

skysky wrote:All good points, thanks. I dont want to gear too heavy for an anti tank list as I still want a balance. So three troops is enough you guys think? What no horde marines .

With the deff rolla change, orks could definitely make a come back. However, with all the twin linked flamer goodness and balanced anti-tank (short-medium and long ranged) it's a balanced list.

skysky wrote:If I drop the scouts and normal termies I have 305 points. I agree that I should go ahead and max out the speeders, 3 twin linked fast meltas that can DS is pretty sweet. I dont realy like Typhoons as the speeders are somewhat fragile and I dont like to spend too many points on them. 3 cheap TL MM buzzing around is enough I think combined with a TL MG in each squad. Now for the other 245 points.....another tac squad? How about 2 dreads, that sticks with target saturation as there is more than 1 of them, and that whole 2 is 3 times as good as 1 thing, right? But I think that is where I'm headed if 3 full tac squads can do the job. I have 245 points to work with so let the s come forth! Thanks again for input guys.

Typical Vulkan lists are balanced vs horde and anti-vehicle with one exception, long range anti-vehicle. Keep that in mind.

I think that normal powerfist storm bolter Termys get a bad rap. Depending on how you use them they can be pretty good. I would recomend bringing a heavy weapon in that squad. Like a assalt cannon. make em really shooty. Yeah they are a bit more squishy but terminators are still terminators they arent punks. I say bring em if you wanna. If you do decide to drop the vindicators (I lke that big ole gun they got) I would def bring a second land raider. I know I hate fighting people who have two of those things on the board.

I do agree about the heavy flamers on the land speeders. thats almost a requirement now adays.

Persoanlly I am starting to steer away from armys designed to just smash people to pulp. if its casual and friendly you don't have to bring the most Killy units in the world. Where is the fun in that. Sure the autocannon pred and lascannon sides is superior to the Vindicator. But that big Gun sure is grand.

Scouts with sniper rifles are just mean. you can't ignore them and you hate sending a dedicated anything to kill em.

Your list is pretty fun. I would tweek it a little bit and play it. Have fun. your noty up for ARD BOYS after all.

I do recomend a drop pod for one tac squad. That one addition with make your IG opponents cringe.

skysky wrote:So I just did the math and with the 245 points I can take 2 MM dreds, 2 flamers to the speeders, a MM to the Landraider and a dozer blade somewhere amongst my tanks.

Or should I snag a TF cannon and 1 dred with 40 points left. The 2 MM dreds would again capitalize on vulkan but again I dont want to leave a hole in my list. I was looking for a slight boost with the meltas while keepnig the rerolls of a chaplain with more survivability. I have already done that so I dont want to go too anti tank. So possibly 2 dreds with assault cannon. Just think of all the smash-happy goodness that there is. Powerfists, thunderhammers, dred hammers OH MY! Yeah i did just say that

MM dreads require drop pods. They have medium ranged weapons and no real mobility.

I don't think you can go 'too' anti-tank in 5th ed. I would definitely drop the pf terminators or think of playing a vanilla marine list and dump vulkan.

@ imweasel. Ideally that is what I was trying to do. I am actually an ultramarine player (everything will remain blue and gold), so yes i was attempting to keep a balanced vanilla list with a slight boost so i would stop missing when the time came for meltas. Yes MM dreds need to be podded in to get within 12". I was leaning towards the assault cannon because it brings anti-infantry with potential for transport killing, also it is fully effective at 24". maybe even 2 PC dreds for dealing with other marines. I think ive covered enough armor killing with the speeders, tac squads, LR, and vindies. For infantry firepower I might be lacking with only the vindies. The dreds would bring added strength there. Thoughts?

skysky wrote:@ imweasel. Ideally that is what I was trying to do. I am actually an ultramarine player (everything will remain blue and gold), so yes i was attempting to keep a balanced vanilla list with a slight boost so i would stop missing when the time came for meltas. Yes MM dreds need to be podded in to get within 12". I was leaning towards the assault cannon because it brings anti-infantry with potential for transport killing, also it is fully effective at 24". maybe even 2 PC dreds for dealing with other marines. I think ive covered enough armor killing with the speeders, tac squads, LR, and vindies. For infantry firepower I might be lacking with only the vindies. The dreds would bring added strength there. Thoughts?

MM dreads are not going to help your anti-infantry. You could always go with rifleman dreads. Good at busting light transports and good dakka for infantry.

Hmmmm not a huge amount of meltas or thunder hammers to take advantage. I'd change the normal terminators to assault terminators so you've got more hammers. Then drop the power fists on the tact squads and add flamers to the speeders. Then get another land raider.

Take a Librarian with Machine Curse. That should sort you out on anti armour....

Do you think 3 vindicators is too much if I fill up the third heavy slot and take a anti-inf. based dread. Granted there is no such thing as too much but it is only effective at 24", with three though .

I ran the list this weekend at 1750 (so without the 245 I'm working on) and it did extremely well I thought. I played against a SoB army which was infantry based and I pretty much tabled the guy, he had like 4-5 battle sisters left (running away) and St. Celestine who was about to get get smacked with 3 MM, a ML, a LRs full payload, 2 rhino SB and a Demolisher shell. On top of that he had 2 FP left and it was turn 5 when we called it and I had my obj. and was walking onto his undisputed. All I lost was a tac squad to the saint (she DS with seraphim and I tied her up for 4 turns), 1 vind.(didn't even shoot), a rhino and part of the squad in it and 1 termie got dragged down by the mob of like 20 sisters they assaulted and ran off (he lost by combat by 8).

The list did very well. Wasn't the best opponent but I was surprised at the infantry killing I did with what I had. The majority was Vulkan and his termies massacring things and running them of the board but still I thought I would need more shot volume to run a 2 tank army off. Especially when 1 vidicator got popped right off the bat and the other one only fire twice.

But back on topic, I have a dakka pred that usually pulls more than its weight in points. What do you guys think on running the dakka pred, 1PC dred and flamers on the speeders? Doesn't exactly stick with threat cloning but I figure a pred sitting back and shooting is tougher than an AV12 dred with just as much punch. The dred would have descent range and still be capable off fending off tough guys from the pred and home obj. so long as he doesn't get popped.

I don't think I would base the success of your list on a foot slogging SoB army, especially with your comment that your opponent wasn't the best.

To optimize this list, you either play a vulkan list or you play a vanilla marine list.

Trying to do both is not a good plan for success.

If you're gonna go with vulkan take loads of multi-melta and flamers. No point otherwise.

If you're going with vanilla change your ML to Multi-Melta and your Melta Guns to Flamers.
That way your 5 man squads can take down infantry and any vehicle.

Paying a lot of attention to the Rhinos, a friend in the local players group use this 2000p Vulkan list:

- Vulkan. 190
- 5x Terminator TH/SS - LRC+MM. 460

- 6x Terminator TH/SS - LR (HV choice). 490

- Tactical - Meltagun+MM - Rhino + Extra Armor. 225
- Tactical - F+MM - Rhino + Extra Armor. 220
- Comb. Squad - Razorback with Lascannon & TL Plasmagun. 165

- Vindicator + Siege Shield. 125
- Vindicator + Siege Shield. 125


Some difficulty on the multi objective games, depending on how many object to claim, but in anycase really hard to manage with.

Preventing one of your comments we do use a lot of scenics so most of times the Rhinos stay away from troubles for a little time and with the Extra Armor they still conserve a good chance to move in anycase.

I play Nids, Big Nids expecially and we are almost 50/50 'til now. Depending on who start first.