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A couple of days ago I read (and really enjoyed) Thor665's Dark Eldar Tactica hear on Dakka.

I came across this idea:

A modified version of The Gunboat has started showing up, generally called The Super Gunboat. The trick here is to buy a Warrior Squad *and* a Raider Squad. Deck out the Raider squad as a sniper squad (discussed below) and equip the Warrior squad like a Gunboat build, but with the Warrior Squad’s ability to take 2 heavy and 2 special weapons you can have 2 Cannons and Blasters. On deployment drop the Raider squad down to use as a Sniper Squad and place the Warrior Squad near the now empty Raider, on your turn load them up and go hunting.

There is a friendly/semi-competitive game on Saturday coming up for me where I playtest them against Imperial Guard, Ultra Marines and Tau-Nurgle (CSM and Tau as allies).

And - since I am no man for doing things half way - I will field THREE Super Gunboats and three Ravagers combined with Str6-Archon and Argonizer-Dracon with a Wyche squad in a raider each. (I will post the detailed list with the Battle Reports I am doing for this. Just not enough time to translate it to English yet.)


Question is: Are Super Gunboats competitive? How does one play them? How would you play them?

Props to Thor665 for giving me the idea. The Eric-dog is kicking it old school, yo. Peace out.

No, not really, since you don't actually gain anything significant.

All you gain is a Single Blaster, which is not worth losing a turn of Dark Lance Fire.

I should add the question "Are they fun to play?" then.

Gwar! wrote:No, not really, since you don't actually gain anything significant.

All you gain is a Single Blaster, which is not worth losing a turn of Dark Lance Fire.

Swiggity sweet! I've been on the site for probably a touch over a year now and I finally get my chance for a blatant 'Gwar is wrong' post. I'll probably frame it, and put it on a wall to admire, and lean back in a chair while sipping Scotch and toast to it in fond memory of this day.

You gain a Blaster...*and* a Splinter cannon. In yo' face Gwar!

Also, just as a more serious clarification, you actually don't give up a round of Lance fire since you never deploy the Raider squad inside the transport, they are deployed into the sniper position of your choice and can fire as they wish on Turn 1.

Super Gunboats play pretty much like normal gunboats do. On Turn 1 you generally move 12" and fire your Raider's Dark Lance. On Turn 2 you generally try to move 6" into a position where you can fire the vehicle's Lance at a needed target and then fire the squad inside at either a vehicle (2 Blasters can be deadly) or at footsloggers (2 S. Cannons generate a solid amount of firepower, and if you're within 12" the S.Rifles and Blasters will help shred pretty much anything short of Terminators). Try to stay out of assault range and be mindful of leaving yourself where Space Marines or Tau can move up and rapid fire you, as a Raider doesn't like to be rapid fired by Str 4+ weaponry.

In the grand scheme of DE competitiveness I think the most competitive lists have every squad in their own Raider, so I ding the Super Gunboat for that. However, if you don't have enough Raiders to mech up everything in your army list this can be a pretty solid compromise and a good way to beef up the potential damage output of a Gunboat. I, personally, really like the way Gunboats play so I always have fun with them - but then I pretty much always have fun whenever I play 40k, so I'm a terrible judge on that score. I think for a semi friendly tournament it will be something interesting to try out and will give you some excellent insight into how you may want to play your DE in the future.

Though I certainly do not claim credit for the original Super Gunboat idea, I am happy you enjoyed the Tactica and are getting use out of it, thanks for the kind words.

Without reading thor's wall of text, I am going to say he's right....

Here is the telepathic summery:

You get +1 blaster, and +1 Splinter cannon....

....Its semi-competitive and good for comp tourneys but in a event with no soft scores its much better to have 3 more raiders....

... Shameless plug for the tactica....

... disclaimer acknowledgement, as not to seem arrogant...

Hehehehe.

Gwar....

Hehehehee.....

---------------

Just wanted to say props for playing DE, they will be my 40k army if or when they get a new 'dex.

Man when I saw the topic I got all giddy about wanting to post the rules and pics of my Rampage. THIS THREAD DISAPPOINTS!

Another thought. What if you take Dark Lances instead of Splinter Cannons?

You could mix it up in a 2:1 or 1:2 way. The only problem I see with 3-5 DL-shots per Raider is maybe that it's too much of a Death Star against your average Rhino/Chimera spam list (though my DL-shots whiff surprisingly often).

Luthon1234 wrote:Man when I saw the topic I got all giddy about wanting to post the rules and pics of my Rampage. THIS THREAD DISAPPOINTS!

I have no idea what you are even talking about. o_O

If you make them DL, You waste a turn of shooting by boarding the boat. Its not worth it to create a stationary shooting plat form that does not increase your DL total.

I've been using super gunboats for a while and I take it even a little further by giving the Sybarite something to use such as the Xenospasm so it can throw a little more than just a splinter rifle at a target. Also, xeno can at least kill something even though the target may be unpinnable.

So the trick I like most with this squad is to pin the target so you cut back the amount of fire coming back at you. The raider I use does have nightshields however it's purely optional however its a unit that I want to preserve as long as possible and I am going to do whatever I can to keep them floating. So between the Horrorfex and the Xenospasm I am looking to pin the target as well as whittle the target away.

A good example how I use them (even though I took a chance with them and lost the unit) you can find in one of my battle reports at another forum here:

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/40k-battle-reports/189115-salamanders-vs-wych-cult-2k-battle-missions-vanguard.html

I think where a unit like this does really well are against opponents that are rushing at you and thus you really do not need to move more than 6" to hit something. I've had the most luck against nids but they work well enough against most marine armies as well.

The toughest part of using them is ensuring you make the embarkation - usually the enemy will punk the raider before I can make the switch or the even after they embark they get downed the following turn. Even the warriors that are waiting to board become a target as its open season on them from the first turn.

As for the raider squad, I max them out to a squad 10 with a lance and as mentioned above they are usually camping on an objective taking pot shots at enemy transports.

Is it worth it? It depends on your style and the rest of the list but in my Wych Cult lists they are expendable and the fact that they are not a scoring unit lowers them on the opponents priority list. I think what I love most about this squad is that if you can get them within 12" of the enemy you can really put down a lot of dice on a target - its a lot of dice.

My most memorable experience is using it against the old tyranid codex and I rapid fired on a Carnifex and a splinter rifle actually got through to the carni and he failed that last wound. On the next turn a squad of outflanking genestealers failed the charge on them and on my turn the super gunboat squad just unloaded on them killing a bunch. The stealers did finally explode the raider but the ensuing blast killed even more of them (lucky). At that point the remaining warrior squad again rapid fired the genestealers and killed them all.

So yah, I can give some success stories but understand they sometimes fail to embark or last another turn and crash. It takes some skill and patience but its a viable tactic if you want to try it. I've never tried to do it more than one squad as I do not like having a lot of foot squads on the table and would rather have the extra raiders instead so I usually only try this with one unit.

Thank you kwi. You helped me a lot.

I will make sure to inform you of my experiences.

Kwi wrote:A good example how I use them (even though I took a chance with them and lost the unit) you can find in one of my battle reports at another forum here:

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/40k-battle-reports/189115-salamanders-vs-wych-cult-2k-battle-missions-vanguard.html

This batrep is total bunk, DE as defenders?

That's an interesting addition (the Xenospasm) and really pairs well with your use of H.fexes, which you know I'm a big fan of. It was also really interesting to get to see how the N.Shields worked for you. I really will try them again any century now, I swear, but it's just so hard to justify them when I have to keep cutting boats.

As far as enemy units shooting up the unembarked DE and/or empty Raider, I agree this is a concern but usually the unembarked Lance squad and Raiders that are loaded with Wyches/Lords tend to draw most of the fire. It was exciting to see a Super Gunboat vs. a Drop Pod assault, since that's not a particular combo I've experienced first hand. Your opponent did, what I feel was a fairly smart thing, and focused on Wych boats and the ilk, which is about what I expect from Drop Podders. Have you had this go the other way, with Drop Pods rapid firing the squad to death before loadup? Is this a good/bad thing in your mind?