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Using smoke launchers prevents the vehicle from firing any of its weapons.

Yet I can't seem to find anything preventing passengers firing from inside the vehicle on a turn you used smoke launchers. Is this right?

Spellbound wrote:Using smoke launchers prevents the vehicle from firing any of its weapons.

Yet I can't seem to find anything preventing passengers firing from inside the vehicle on a turn you used smoke launchers. Is this right?

RaW, they are permitted to fire their weapons just fine.

However, the INAT FAQ changes this rule (though once again it is tagged as a "Clarification").

Personally, I don't fire out my vehicles after using smoke, as I think it is just a stupid mistake by GW they, of course, have no idea is an issue. However, if an opponent wanted to, I would have no problem letting him, as that is what the rules allow him to do.

I think if you did say shoot out of a transport that popped smoke wouldn't everything that shot out of the transport give a 4+ cover? I mean it would obscure and block los to everything by the very nature of smoke clouds.

I agree with Gwar that it is an oversight by GW and don't do it but if you don't have the FAQ on hand it is technically legal by BRB.

GWAR can you explain how it is RAW?

I had asked before IIRC and was pretty unanimously told no. Unless it was somewhere else.

Shatterproof - the smoke is not a physical table effect which effects LOS. It is just a rule the tank is taking advantage of. So no there is nothing actually there to obscure anything, the tank just uses that rule to get a save for one turn. It has no bearing on any other model but ones firing at it.

GMMStudios wrote:GWAR can you explain how it is RAW?

I had asked before IIRC and was pretty unanimously told no. Unless it was somewhere else.

Shatterproof - the smoke is not a physical table effect which effects LOS. It is just a rule the tank is taking advantage of. So no there is nothing actually there to obscure anything, the tank just uses that rule to get a save for one turn. It has no bearing on any other model but ones firing at it.

Well, show me where it says they cannot fire out of a fire point if smoke is used.

I can show you were it says they can fire out of a fire point. Smoke does not change this.

Hmm...maybe it was a rule where if the tank cant fire the passengers cant, and a misunderstanding.

I dunno Im trying to figure out how one could come to that conclusion that they cant now TBH.

@GMMStudios I just assumed that because it obscures the vehicle and it cant shoot weapons (for what ever reason) that the crew inside would be either in the smoke cloud or shooting through it. I used logic instead of RaW I apologize lol.

Its fine. I understand where you are coming from logically.

They cant because I believe it was FAQ'd saying they cant but I am not sure, if it isnt then technically nothing says you cant. Its one of those grey zone rules where RaI and RaW can go either way, but I believe the way everyone I've seen play it is the crew doesnt shoot. I mean hell there is no reason not to most vehicles that have fire point and pop smoke's gun is pretty terrible so its like a storm bolter or 4+ cover.. hmm.

when i pop smoke it is usually after i have moved somewhere very quickly so it cannot fire or when i have no intentions of fire anyway.. it would be pretty rare of an occasion (in my mind) of where you would opt for you passengers to fire over the transports weapons

I do this pretty regularly actually. I'll have a Tactical Squad inside a Rhino holding an objective, I pop smoke and then shoot the tactical squads heavy weapon from the top.

I don't think it's a grey area at all, the Smoke Launcher rule (at least in the SM Codex) states pretty clearly that the "vehicle may not fire any of its weapons", nothing about any other unit inside it, next to it, behind it, or on the other side of the board.

well the problem with that thinking is saying that only troop transports have smoke when the majority (IIRC) has smoke launchers, so saying the vehicle cant but the troops inside can gets confusing with say.. a predator. Does that mean it cant shoot but the guys can shoot it.... like PotmS cant shoot but the tank crew can?

Well considering it states, "vehicle may not fire any of its weapons" and the passengers and vehicle can normally shoot at two different targets, I would say that the passengers can in fact fire when the vehicle pops smoke.

Along with the point that Gwar made about firing points allowing passengers to fire and that they are treated as separate units when firing, it is pretty well backed up RAW as well.

Yes - RAW you can fire from inside. It doesnt make sense, but theyve had 2 editions at least to change it - and havent.

Brother Ramses wrote:Well considering it states, "vehicle may not fire any of its weapons" and the passengers and vehicle can normally shoot at two different targets, I would say that the passengers can in fact fire when the vehicle pops smoke.

Along with the point that Gwar made about firing points allowing passengers to fire and that they are treated as separate units when firing, it is pretty well backed up RAW as well.

Oh, really? I always thought the vehicle and the passengers had to fire at the same topic. Do you find telling me where in the BRB this is?

Gavo wrote:

Brother Ramses wrote:Well considering it states, "vehicle may not fire any of its weapons" and the passengers and vehicle can normally shoot at two different targets, I would say that the passengers can in fact fire when the vehicle pops smoke.

Along with the point that Gwar made about firing points allowing passengers to fire and that they are treated as separate units when firing, it is pretty well backed up RAW as well.

Oh, really? I always thought the vehicle and the passengers had to fire at the same topic. Do you find telling me where in the BRB this is?

They're separate units, and nothing in the transport rules prohibits them from choosing another target as normal or tells them to fire at the same time as the vehicle.

Gavo - find out where it states that two seperate units have to fire at the same target. without this you fall back ont he basic shooting rules

The vehicle and the unit embarked are seperate units. Models *within* a unit have to fire at the same target, there is no such restriction between units.

Ok, cool. Then does that mean, as they are seperate units, can the transport pop a vehicle, then the people inside can shoot at the disembarked passengers, as they are two seperate units?

Yes, of course - same as any other time you have 2 units.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, of course - same as any other time you have 2 units.

That's what I thought, thanks.

i am pretty certain that this is covered in an FAQ - the IG one if i recall correctly

I'm confused, and don't have my book handy, but..

Don't infantry inside a transport only get to shoot their weapons if the vehicle can fire, and follow the normal rules for firing? If that's the case, if the vehicle can't shoot, neither can they.

Also, can infantry fire a heavy weapon if the vehicle moves? I'm assuming since they moved, they could not. In either case, if they fire as only if the vehicle fires, following normal rules, do they then not have to target the same target?

Youre confused, the passengers cannot shoot if the vehicle moves over 6" or is stunned/shaken, however if it does not do either then the passengers can shoot.

If the vehicle moves the passengers count as having mvoed.

Which brings up another queston. A vehicle can only pop smoke after its move. A vehicle can move 0" (or pivot), but it still counts as a move.

Does this count as the squad inside having moved for purposes of shooting heavy weapons?

Yes, and you have it backwards - pivoting IS movement, it just doesnt count AS movement for the purpose of shooting.

nosferatu1001 wrote:pivoting IS movement, it just doesnt count AS movement for the purpose of shooting.

It doesn't count as moving period. For any purpose.
There is no 'for the purposes of shooting' constraint.

Gorkamorka wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:pivoting IS movement, it just doesnt count AS movement for the purpose of shooting.

It doesn't count as moving period. For any purpose.
There is no 'for the purposes of shooting' constraint.

As much as I hate to say it:

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG!

It counts as movement for disembarking models.

Catachan_Devil wrote:i am pretty certain that this is covered in an FAQ - the IG one if i recall correctly

No, it's not.

Why not check the FAQ before posting that?