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Hey guys,

The Codex is in the post, but I want to start working on my models now...

I understand you should run a conventional DA army with codex rules, but I want my termies to be suited for Deathwing as well...

What kind of list would people use for Deathwing?

Can you mix a Deathwing force with a conventional one? So can I, for example, take Assault Squads and Devastator Squads with a Deathwing? Or is it all termies?

Atm I own 10 terminators and 5 assault terminators... How would you configure those for DW usage? Do I need more? AoBR Termies are very easy to get ahold of

Well, a DW force should be led by Belial.
He makes all DW Termie squad troops and thus scoring.
DW Termie units are limited to 5 models.
I'd outfit all Termies in such a squad differently.
Then the squad will benefit from the wound distribution rule.
Each DW unit should have one heavy weapon, assault cannon or cyclone.
Moreover, I'd include an Apothecary into Belial's unit.

You can mix a DW force with a conventional one.

I used all AoBR Termies for my Deathwing and it's been fine. Since you can get a hold of all plastic arms, magnatize them so you can swap. The DA accessory sprue is pretty nice, but you're basically stuck trying to buy LC/TH/SS from ebay.

I run 6 squads of termies with 1 LC, 1 Special, 1 reg, 1 chainfist, and the Sgt. I have my dreads and vindicators painted white/bleach as well.

The only thing I'm considering now is if I want to have some Ravenwing to help my teleporters or not.

My typical list is: Belial, Liby w/Term, 4 Squds of DW, 2 Dreads, 2 Vindi's. That's right in between 1500-1750 pts pending on which specials I take and how I arm my dreads/vindi's.

For 'Ard boys, I'm just adding 1 dread, 1 vindi, and 2 more squads of termies for 2500pts.

You can field whatever you want, as there is no "restriction" to fielding the assault/devastators to the list. From a fluff perspective, I've tried not to - though it doesn't always work out from a competition perspective since I have limited myself to a 24" kill zone and I have a lack of mobility.

but having Terminators for troops choices is pretty OK.


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wuestenfux wrote:Well, a DW force should be led by Belial.
He makes all DW Termie squad troops and thus scoring.
DW Termie units are limited to 5 models.
I'd outfit all Termies in such a squad differently.
Then the squad will benefit from the wound distribution rule.
Each DW unit should have one heavy weapon, assault cannon or cyclone.
Moreover, I'd include an Apothecary into Belial's unit.

You can mix a DW force with a conventional one.

Agree with all except:

1) Apothecary in the DA book isn't the same as FnP - you only get to negate one failed regular save. Not worth the 30pts, though the Banner totally is - giving everyone in the squad 1 extra attack is nice.

And I didn't mention it in the previous post, but yes - I have all my squads different for wound allocation and the Regular Joe is the first to go

Pretty much what these guys say. However I like to have a Heavy Flamer in my CC oriented squads.

Wound alocation is not an end all be all kind of thing for DW since they only have one wound anyway so I like to have one or two CC oriented squads

The Apot should not be in the same squad as Belial since you want the Apot out of CC and you want Belial in CC.

The LRC gives you some nice transport capacity and also some nice Anti Tank and anti personel fire.

Would people get pissy if, when using a mixed army, you used vanilla prices for non-ravenwing and non-deathwing units?

Ofc you'd configure them as the new codex allows.

If they do you should find yourself some new friends to play with. My DW termies are standard codex termies (with a few DW pices from the DA Veterans Sprue) and no one has ever complained.

If you are using the DA codex, you have to use the DA codex, no swapping units in from C:SM.

That's why you should go termie heavy with Belial, it's something the vanillas can't do. If you plan on running straight up Tac/Assault/Dev squads, you are better off using the C:SM book.

And I totally disagree with the above about the Apothecary not being worth 30 points. It's incredibly difficult to take down a unit of Termies, being able to ignore one casualty per turn is fantastic.

I agree with the above poster. The Apothecary, while not granting you FNP, lets you shrug off that damn lone Las shot that makes it through your term armor!

Also, Ravenwing bikers are amazing when equipped correctly. one squad of 6 with 2x melta combat squaded? Guaranteed to be in 1/2 melta range first turn with scout*And you CAN turbo Boost in scout phase, and RAW, you get a 3+ invuln until the next Enemies Shooting phase(Gay, I know)). Also, those 6 tele homers are totally worth it.


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Also, don't forget that your terms are scouring! So if they are inside of say... a LRC, that is a Scouring Land Raider yo! Park that bitch on the biggest objective you can find, and see how things go for your enemy!

Lol Rashim, that's epic.

You can make a DW and RW combo at 1700 points, with the death wing in 2 land raiders to boot. People tend to get annoyed when your entire army is scoring lol.

wuestenfux wrote:I'd outfit all Termies in such a squad differently.
Then the squad will benefit from the wound distribution rule.
Each DW unit should have one heavy weapon, assault cannon or cyclone.
Moreover, I'd include an Apothecary into Belial's unit.

You can mix a DW force with a conventional one.

while you must allocate wounds before saves, you don't actually gain any benefit with the DW from the rule if you're talking about the rule ork nob bikers (ab)use. the unit has to consist of only multiwound models to use that one. as for the conventional force with dw, you can mix the various companies together as long as they all come from the dark angel codex only. you can mix deathwing with ravenwing with regular DA but not with ironclad dreads from the regular marine codex. as long as your choices fit on the force organization chart, you're good.

since you're starting out with dark angels (don't know if you're an old 40k vet or new to the game), they do have some important differences between them and regular marines since their codex was made in 4th edition and the game rules have changed. as stated above, their apothecary lets you ignore one non-instant death or armor ignoring close combat weapon wound per PLAYER turn (not just game turn) if you choose a model within 6" of the apothecary. note that they CAN ignore plasma gun hits as it's not instant death nor ignoring armor in close combat unlike with feel no pain (which can't do that). meltas are still out since they cause instant death to marines. ravenwing bikers can NOT scout turboboost since the codex specifically says they can't (despite 5th edition marine scout bikers doing so). on the flip side, your speeders and attack bikes are scoring units when bought with ravenwing attack squadrons because of the same early codex distinction. your psychic hood has no top range so use it freely (the new ones are 24"), your stormshield is a 4+ invul save in close combat only, and your machine spirit rule for landraiders can't be used if you move more than 6". finally, your scouts don't actually have the scout rule but apparently spend that time at the shooting range and in the ring as they are ws/bs 4. welcome to codex/edition limbo! all in all, they're still a fun army to play but definitely suffer from the early/mid 4th edition blandhammer codex syndrome.

you can still use the wound allocation to some extent. For example, if a marine squad with a PG fire at you and caus etwo wounds with the MG and 6 wounds with the Bolters than you can put those two PG wounds the same terminator. But as I said before, individualizing your squad for those few occasions is not really worth it.

Gaaayyyy, I just spent 30 minutes looking for that in my DA's Codex, and that rule is nice and hidden.

Ravenwing Bikers CAN'T turbo boast in the scout phase =S.

Faggy...

Can you REALLY not just use the 5thed rules, costs and abilities for your non-DW and non-RW units? Would anyone really mind that?


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'Cos I can see a new player like me making lots of mistakes... I'm only aquainted with 5e after all.

Well it is not that big a problem, i started DA in 5th but I do really well, and the costs aren't actually that far off, mostly just the rules. In fact that is usually a huge help because a FEARLESS loyalist army is quite unusual. In fact just reading the codex several times through looking for those tricky differences can really help. Otherwise I would say just use a C:SM book because it would probably really screw with the dynamic of the army to use C:SM costs.

And as far as those tricky apothecaries are concerned i like 'em for the fact that FNP does not always work and they gaurentee a save, and they have very close to (if not) the same restrictions from the attack.

Also big thing to note is that the Speeders (even when bought with the troops attack squadron) is not able to capture, only contest as per all vehicles.

Like I said though just read the codex like Rashim said, he didnt know the entire book (and he has a massive army), heck, I read the rules in there completely through every couple weeks beacuse of those C:SM players inserting their codex in my head every week.

PS: I have a Army list posted on this forum under "2000 Dark Angels Problems?" that is a great example of the combinative powers of the dex I think.

braindeadmonkey wrote:
Also big thing to note is that the Speeders (even when bought with the troops attack squadron) is not able to capture, only contest as per all vehicles.

nope, they are "scoring" units which means they can capture. the codex supercedes the general rules in all cases where they disagree as per the little blurb under the smoke launchers rulebook note. as specifically noted "scoring" units, they ignore the usual restriction of vehicles and non-troops choices not being able to capture objectives. it's stupid but true. it's one of only two benefits (the other being the rangeless psychic hood) that they get from being an old codex; the rest of the differences hinder them. would i have a problem with someone updating the rules to the new ones and paying the prices in the marine codex for the same named stuff? nope, as long as they were consistent (like they upgraded everything not just the things that would get better). could i see another person having a problem with it? sure.

Yeppers. RW Speeders when purchased as part of the Assault group are scoring as long as Sammael is one of your HQ.

A Ravenwing is a pretty good example of one of those annoying armies where everything can score on the table and doesn't have to stay together.

I'm still waiting on the army that get's to count Dreads as troops and scoring. That will be awesome.

Off Topic: The Dead Legion

Can take servitors without using FoC slots

HQ - MotF Artificer Dread x2
Elite - 3 Iron Clads
Troops - 6 Normal
Fast Attack - 3 Outflanking Sentinel types squads (9 total)
Heavy - 3 Venerable

Full of Win!