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This came up in a Necron v. BA Battle Report and I was curious if it was legal.

Tomb Spyder Moves Six, Pops a Scarab Swarm 2 Inches forward and then assaults using the Swarm (Gaining additional base width). Potentially 15-16" Charge. Not broken, but interesting.

Artificer rule says that each turn the Spyder is not in Close Combat, you can create a swarm at the start of the assault phase.

Can you still assault?

(removed run again)

I don't play 'crons but as your using your asssault phase to spawn scarabs I'd say you can't assault.
What rules govern the scarabs though? Can they asssault?

Scarabs are part of the same unit as the Spyders, so it's all or nothing.

The rule specifically says 'Each Necron Turn, a TS that is not in close combat can expend energy to create a Scarab swarm. The swam is placed into contact with the Spyder at the start of the Assault Phase...'

edit: And I notice that it is 'In Contact' so that takes away the 2" of coherency gain. Blah. Now you're just gaining the width of the scarab base.

Then i would say no they can't assualt as its all or nothing. As some of the newly made unit can't assault

I saw that thread and thought the same thing, but no you shouldn't be able to assault after making the swarm.

Nothing I can find in the rules prevents you from declaring an assault with the unit.

thats RAW I asume?

Well, given that the scarab rules dont prevent you from assaulting, and it is carried out before moving into combat thus meaning you can still produce the swarm, the Rules as Written dont seem to prevent it.

Well since it's my battle report that spawned this discussion I'll chime in.

It state's that as long as the unit is not in assault at the beginning of the turn it may spawn a scarab swarm. You roll a d6 and on a 1 the spyder takes a wound.

No where does it say that you cannot assault after doing so. The only restriction it gives is that the scarab must be in btb with the tomb spyder.

I view it like the tervigon spitting out gaunts. The gaunts are then able to act normally, and the tervigon is able to act normally.

I'm with you on this one, although the Terv thing doesn't really help since that is Movement phase.

I think this is closer to rules like Faith or Orders that say 'At the Start of X phase...' allow you to do something, but don't take over your whole phase.

As Warmaster said, nothing prevents this. At the start of Assault phase, if the Spyder isn't in combat, it can make a Swarm, then the unit can declare assaults with the Swarm in Front.

Thanks guys. Curiousity satisfied.

Agreed. Ran into this recently in a league game. Necron player ran two monoliths and three tomb spiders for some counterassault. The spiders are really useful, and can pull a surprising amount of wound abuse shenanigans from each generating 1 scarab base at a time, which then counts as T6 for pretty much all purposes since there is one T3 and one T6 in the unit, and in 5th edition you use the higher in that situation. The extra assault distance was a surprise to me too, but seems to be totally legit.

If you really want to scratch your head try and figure out what to do when a tomb spyder with scarab attendants attempts to move through cover .

Warmaster wrote:If you really want to scratch your head try and figure out what to do when a tomb spyder with scarab attendants attempts to move through cover .

What's difficult about that? You don't get any of the benefits the scarab has to move through cover.

Kevin949 wrote:

Warmaster wrote:If you really want to scratch your head try and figure out what to do when a tomb spyder with scarab attendants attempts to move through cover .

What's difficult about that? You don't get any of the benefits the scarab has to move through cover.

The rules say you always move at the speed of the slowest model of the unit. So the scarab moves like a jetbike and the spyder moves like a monstrous creature.

So does that mean that you role 3d6 as per the monstrous creature rules? or does having the scarab in there mean you have to do 2d6, even though nothing moves 2d6.

Also even if you do use the 3d6 if the scarab ends up in difficult terrain do you have to make a separate roll for him to see if it takes a wound on a one since it moves as if it's a jetbike.

The game assplodes as yet another situation that GW didn't prepare for strikes again!

Warmaster wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Warmaster wrote:If you really want to scratch your head try and figure out what to do when a tomb spyder with scarab attendants attempts to move through cover .

What's difficult about that? You don't get any of the benefits the scarab has to move through cover.

The rules say you always move at the speed of the slowest model of the unit. So the scarab moves like a jetbike and the spyder moves like a monstrous creature.

So does that mean that you role 3d6 as per the monstrous creature rules? or does having the scarab in there mean you have to do 2d6, even though nothing moves 2d6.

Also even if you do use the 3d6 if the scarab ends up in difficult terrain do you have to make a separate roll for him to see if it takes a wound on a one since it moves as if it's a jetbike.

Yes the scarab would make a dangerous terrain test but also scarabs ignore terrain anyway so they don't make any dice rolls for going over terrain. Also, you have to move at the slowest pace at any time and this would be the spyders pace.

Do scarabs ignore dangerous terrain tests? I don't recall reading that anywhere.

I typically play them as moving like infantry. If the unit was multiple monstrous creatures then I could see using 3d6 and pick the highest, but it's a mixed unit. I play it that I roll 2d6 and pick the highest. I don't think i usually do difficult terrain tests for the scarab because he is technically infantry and he would be "moving like infantry" when he's with the TS.

RobPro wrote:Do scarabs ignore dangerous terrain tests? I don't recall reading that anywhere.

I typically play them as moving like infantry. If the unit was multiple monstrous creatures then I could see using 3d6 and pick the highest, but it's a mixed unit. I play it that I roll 2d6 and pick the highest. I don't think i usually do difficult terrain tests for the scarab because he is technically infantry and he would be "moving like infantry" when he's with the TS.

no no, I didn't say they ignore taking dangerous terrain tests, but they ignore making a roll for going through terrain. It says it in the scarab entry, they ignore terrain. But like all jetbikes, if they start or end their turn in difficult terrain they must take a dangerous terrain test.

I would say roll 3d6 for the spyder as normal as the scarabs would easily keep up with it, just hope you don't fail those dangerous terrain tests. that 5+ save sucks.

You don't get saves from Dangerous Terrain tests.

Oh? I'll have to re-check my friends book, we always played it that you do. Even worse then. :(

RobPro wrote:You don't get saves from Dangerous Terrain tests.

Yes, you do. You don't get Armour or Cover saves. You still get Invul Saves.

Gwar! wrote:

RobPro wrote:You don't get saves from Dangerous Terrain tests.

Yes, you do. You don't get Armour or Cover saves. You still get Invul Saves.

It says you take a wound with no saves. I could be wrong, my rulebook's in my trunk. If you'd like to provide me with the page number, I'd appreciate it.

RobPro wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

RobPro wrote:You don't get saves from Dangerous Terrain tests.

Yes, you do. You don't get Armour or Cover saves. You still get Invul Saves.

It says you take a wound with no saves. I could be wrong, my rulebook's in my trunk. If you'd like to provide me with the page number, I'd appreciate it.

14.
"On the roll of a 1, the model suffers a wound, with no armour or cover saves allowed"

RobPro wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

RobPro wrote:You don't get saves from Dangerous Terrain tests.

Yes, you do. You don't get Armour or Cover saves. You still get Invul Saves.

It says you take a wound with no saves. I could be wrong, my rulebook's in my trunk. If you'd like to provide me with the page number, I'd appreciate it.

No, it doesn't. Page 14

Warmaster wrote:

Kevin949 wrote:

Warmaster wrote:If you really want to scratch your head try and figure out what to do when a tomb spyder with scarab attendants attempts to move through cover .

What's difficult about that? You don't get any of the benefits the scarab has to move through cover.

The rules say you always move at the speed of the slowest model of the unit. So the scarab moves like a jetbike and the spyder moves like a monstrous creature.

So does that mean that you role 3d6 as per the monstrous creature rules? or does having the scarab in there mean you have to do 2d6, even though nothing moves 2d6.

Also even if you do use the 3d6 if the scarab ends up in difficult terrain do you have to make a separate roll for him to see if it takes a wound on a one since it moves as if it's a jetbike.

I think the rules cover this fine. You roll 3D6 and pick the highest to see how far the Spyder moves and if this turns out to be less than 6" then the Scarabs will have to move at that speed as well...not because of the terrain, but because they have to slow down to match the Spyder's movement rate.

And of course the Scarab would have to take a Dangerous terrain test if it ends its movement in terrain.