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Hi

Scenario :
Abbadon + 4 termis are in an assault with nobs and deffdread but are not in B2B with dread. They assaulted the nobs and one nob remains. pile in forces the unit to wrap around nob but abbadon is not in B2B with the dread.
Ghazkull and a unit attached assaults Abbadons unit so is in B2B with Abbadon.

Question :

Does abbadon have to continue to attack the nob and due to second round of assault (after pile in) the deffdread or can he choose to attack Ghazkull as an independant character whilst the termis attack the nob/deffdread?

Query :
I am told I cannot attack ghazkull until ghazkulls round 2 of assault. is this right?

If your in B2B you should beable to direct your attacks against the target. You should even beable to pick based on model to model.

Read the rulebook errata, which adds a bullet to make it clear that "at the start of combat" means *every player turn* you work out what models can fight.

So, if at the start of the round where Ghazghull is in combat Abaddon is in B2B with both Ghazghull and the original nobs, he can choose (and divide attacks as he wishes) to attack the Nob and/or Ghazzy.

sigh my m8 disagrees. i need some proper clarification on this. so far its 4 noobs against the forum heroes here.

i told my m8 whatever Gwar says (if he posts) im taking as law and i will run into my LFGS before I get there for tonights game.

Tell them this, if they're intperreting the rules that way, ie as start of assault phase, then that would mean that any unit which performed an assault move in that phase, ie Ghaz and co, would also not be able to fight until next turn. Bluntly, they're being idiots.

The main rules state that you determine who is engaged with who at the start of that round of combat, ie after assault moves, after charge reactions. Page 35, main rules:
Working out which models are engaged in combat is done at the start of the fight,

Start of the fight, not start of the assault phase.
Once all that (assault/reaction) is done, you pick a combat, determine who is engaged with who, and that is who each engaged model can fight, regardless of when they arrived in the hth.

the point they are trying to make is if im locked in combat with a unit and on the next phase of assault ghaz attacks then I cannot attack ghaz as I was locked in combat with another unit.....until ghaz gets one round of assault attacks without being able to be attacked.

This makes sense when you read the multiple combats section in a way. Ie. you are concentrating on attacking the unit whilst someone else sneaks up behind you and gets an un-retaliated round of attacks.

My argument was that this wouldnt be in effect with independent characters in B2B contact as why would abbadon ignore ghaz to attack a crappy meq unit when he would know the danger and turn around to defend himself. Hes a bloody primarch prodigy even I wouldnt be that thick :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
btw I one shot ghaz with 9 attacks all wounds not enough saves (as his waaagh had ran out the previous turn).

This definitely altered the game as I ended up winning by a looooong way. pure luck tho.

Again, read the GW rulebook errata. It's official and they added it specifically to answer this problem.

The point I am trying to make is that they are wrong!!

Read what I posted, look at the rules. Nowhere does it say, imply or even infer what they are saying. It says, "AT THE START OF THE FIGHT", not at the start of the asault phase. If it was start of the assault phase, then (as I already pointed out), units that perform an assault move into an ongoing combat would have to wait a turn to fight as well. Add in the FAQ eratta that says:

Page 41 – Multiple Combats, Attacking.
In all three bullet points, the word ‘combat’ will be
changed to ‘round of combat’ (BTW, the third bullet point is also from the errata)

Anyways, point that out to them as well as the above. If that doesn't convince them, well, find others to play with is the only other thing I can recommend.

f00n - did you read the rulebook errata? Theres a reason it was pointed out to you.

Dons logical conclusion to their position is correct: if their contention is that you check ONLY at the start of the assault phase, not when the fight starts, then ANY time you assault a new unit you do nothing for an entire player turn.

yep I read the errata and it makes sense to me. In fact im saying what you are saying is right all along. its my friends who dont agree.

SO you need to get them to read the errata....

I thought the way your friends do for a while too. You need to print the errata and have them read it. “Start of combat” is a specific step in the Assault process, and happens AFTER assault moves are made.

What the restriction means is that if (for example) Abbadon and terminators were in combat with a Deffdread, and were all in base contact, then a second unit of Orks charged in but did not base all the terminators; if they just based Abby and one terminator, say, that the terminators who were only in contact with the dread before any attacks were made cannot then attack the Orks, even if Abby killed the dread at a higher initiative step.

And since you are all new, just go to a game store, this is one of the rules I have never had anyone debate. They should have enough people tell them they are wrong face to face that they will listen to reason. Otherwise tell them they are gits and they lose.

they agreed when i showed them the errata but Mannahnin has clarified it in a way the rulebook should have. thanks for that it leaves me with no doubt now. ill explain further to clarify to the guys.

Sorry if it was a point that people should know but we are still new and we take the RAW seriously (with obvious discrepencies for RAI at times) so if someone has a point to query we make sure its queried so we can play a better game.

Thanks all