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The Question is which should i take as my main HQ choice?

In larger games I may well take both, but in the two small practice games i have played so far I took the Sanguinor, but then only just noticed my folly today that the Sanguinor is not an IC, and so I couldn't have him join my squad as I had hoped.

I Usually run a heavily kitted out Vanguard squad all with power weapons, storm shields, and one hammer and a fist, as well as being accompanied by a Sanguinary pries. I find these pack an extremely hard punch and wipe through anything in CC, though that was with

Would I benefit more from The Sanguinor, whose blessing and +1A bubble would help my squads out, though leave himself independent and therefore more vulnerable to fire, or Dante, who could join the squad for an extra infernus pistol and the ability to deepstrike on a penny exactly where I want them?

Also a question on Honour guard, the listing says you can take one for every HQ choice, interpretation is this includes Sanguinor, does this make him a part of their squad like the retinues rule in the BRB (I may be quoting this wrong, I don't have the book in front of me right now) or are they their own squad that the HQ IC would generally join?

I'd Say Dante, Sanguinor Is way to High, Points, your Saving a Rhino, and I'f you have any Assult Squads, Dante's your guy, Not Scattering and Making an Independant Charicter Quite bad for the points he's worth I's definately, A fun battle plan

tiny5th wrote:Also a question on Honour guard, the listing says you can take one for every HQ choice, interpretation is this includes Sanguinor, does this make him a part of their squad like the retinues rule in the BRB (I may be quoting this wrong, I don't have the book in front of me right now) or are they their own squad that the HQ IC would generally join?

They are their own squad a HQ would generally join (if It could).

What do you want to do? You have:

A) Dante: The ability for accurate (pinpoint) deepstrike so the potential for mini 5-6 infernous pistol (or flamers) deathstar units. Using it for assaults is moot because jump packs & decent of angels accuracy is enough.
The ability to take sanguinary guard as troops (i.e elite infantry as troops)


B) Sanguinor: An extremely resilient bullet magnet (useful). Soaking up lascannon shots with a 3+ invulnerable is useful if you field tanks.
Being able to murder one HQ unit and the misdirection you can cause with your choice.
But most importantly; Giving a 1+A bubble; The anti-elite choice; You want larger numbers of cheaper infantry all the benefit from that +1A. Larger squads will make it easier to get at least one model within the 6"

Then lets go onto a breakdown of the Sanguinary guard; vets, honour guard :-

1) Elite guys with hard hitting str 4/5 power weapons. Re-rolls to some attacks naturally. Fearless. Always come with some form of potent wargear. Can be troops. 2+ save naturally as jump infantry.

2) Vets are a cheaper option to the above. Dont cost an elite slot. But they do loose out on useful abilities like fearless & decent of angels in favour of a risky heroic intervention. Deep striking BA should be reliable and accurate. They also loose out on firepower and the save, as well as costing nearly as much with decent weaponry. A poor choice, Just get assault squads instead.

3) Honour guard; A place to field a sanguinary priest relatively cheaply. Its 75pts for a single IC model or 165pts for an honour guard squad with Jump packs before upgrades. That's a mere 33pts/model. Can get expensive with upgrades but they have the option. The +1A chapter banner could be a cheaper way to field a high-A death unit without resorting to a Sanguinor. A useful but tricky choice.

4) Personal favourite, Assault squads; Use these and use them well! A great place for a sanguinary priest (if you choose the IC varient) and tactically flexible in terms of combat squads and either splitting your two melta (or flamer/plasma) guns between or all in one.. And so on.

Thanks, this definitely conforms my suspicions I should be fielding Dante then so he can join my squads.

The squad breakdown, I plan on taking all of the above, seeing as i will have the freedom to shuffle around my FOC slots, I know Vanguard vets are overpriced, but on the table they have always served me well.

And seeing as Vanguard vets don't have descent of angels it will be worth losing heroic intervention to mean I can drop them tactically in any small space amongst heavy cover to just charge next turn.

tiny5th wrote:And seeing as Vanguard vets don't have descent of angels it will be worth losing heroic intervention to mean I can drop them tactically in any small space amongst heavy cover to just charge next turn.

What do you mean by this comment?

Any BA with a jump packs has decent of angels

Blood angels Special Rules (P 23)
"Descent of angels
Blood angels units with this special rule can re-roll failed reserve rolls if arriving by deep strike. Also, due to the precision of their descent, it scatter D6" less (normally D6" rather than 2D6")
Other units in the blood angels army that can arrive by deep strike do so using the normal rules.


Vanguard veterans special rules: (pg 27)

And they Shall Know No Fear
Combat Squads
Red Thirst
Heroic Intervention


*Edit*
Okay missed the entry under jump packs in wargear that said they automatically gain the rule, that changes my strategy more, i really do hate how GW lays out these codices.

I would assume that vets don't have the DoA rule as it isnt listed as one of their special rules & instead they benefit from Heroic intervention. Every other applicable unit has the rule listed.

As for why I queried; what you wrote didn't make sense. Vanguards DO have heroic intervention..

Razerous wrote:





1) Elite guys with hard hitting str 4/5 power weapons. Re-rolls to some attacks naturally. Fearless. Always come with some form of potent wargear. Can be troops. 2+ save naturally as jump infantry.

Are the Sang Guard Fearless? Wow i must of completely overlooked that bit of information.

Razerous wrote:I would assume that vets don't have the DoA rule as it isnt listed as one of their special rules & instead they benefit from Heroic intervention. Every other applicable unit has the rule listed.

As for why I queried; what you wrote didn't make sense. Vanguards DO have heroic intervention..

They lose it when accompanied by an IC however, i was just weighing up the loss of heroic intervention to in its stead gain Dante's drop ability and a Sanguinary priest's feel no pain.

Razerous wrote:2) Vets are a cheaper option to the above. Dont cost an elite slot. But they do loose out on useful abilities like fearless & decent of angels in favour of a risky heroic intervention. Deep striking BA should be reliable and accurate. They also loose out on firepower and the save, as well as costing nearly as much with decent weaponry. A poor choice, Just get assault squads instead.

Vets do get descent of angels. They get it when they buy their jump packs. Check the wargear section of the BA 'dex.

Fifty wrote:

Razerous wrote:2) Vets are a cheaper option to the above. Dont cost an elite slot. But they do loose out on useful abilities like fearless & decent of angels in favour of a risky heroic intervention. Deep striking BA should be reliable and accurate. They also loose out on firepower and the save, as well as costing nearly as much with decent weaponry. A poor choice, Just get assault squads instead.

Vets do get descent of angels. They get it when they buy their jump packs. Check the wargear section of the BA 'dex.

Ahhh; That makes them pretty damn lethal. 1d6" scatter & re-roll reserve arrival.. I like!

I thought vanguard vets can't do their heroic intervention with a hq attached.

Dante with a melta squad is rude, but after they blow up their target the squad is clustered up and ready to eat pie. If the other side has a lot of pie to dish out shooting on the turn of a ds wouldn't be prudent.

The best part of those hq choices are dante making sg troops, and the sanguinators +1 attack bubble.

Dante + Sanguinary guard + 5 infernus pistols = 475pts.

That's 6 meltaguns that you can get within 3" for a surety.

Assault squad + powerfist, 2x Melta = 235.

Two assault squads = 470;

That's nearly quadruple the amount of models, many more attacks, many more hard-hitting attacks and 4 meltaguns that will be nearly as sure to get within 6" if not 12" with Decent of angels. All for less.

Its a false economy guys!

Dante + 2 units of Sanguinary Guard 1 with the chapter banner=655

Add 4 assault squads and that's 6 troops choices that count as a scoring unit.

Dante does have a place in a jump spam army if the player wants to play with Sanguinary Guard. If you don't believe in Sanguinary Guard then there is no reason to buy Dante.

I wouldn't take any unit of Sanguinary Guard without Dante or the other way around. Making them scoring is simply too good to pass, because when you are spending 450+ for a unit and an IC, you don't have much room for troops left. It's not the same with astorath, because if you already are fielding Death Company together with other scoring units, you are already playing quite big games.

Neither nor.
I'd consider a customized HQ.

Illumini wrote:Any BA with a jump packs has decent of angels

unfortunately not, the rule only comes with some units and most hq's with jump pack (or independant charicters like dante, upgrade charicters usually come with some exra advantages eg: lemartes gives the death company he's with decent of angels) but no without lemartes death comp don't have d.o.a. nether to vanguard squads, honor guard, captains or drop pod.

Read the jump pack rules. Or even further up in this thread. You are right that the drop pod doesn't benefit though, but no one claimed that either

Once again, read the wargear section of the BA codex, specifically the entry for jump packs. You get DoA when you buy the jump pack.

Incidenntally, where is the rule that Lemartes confers DoA on his squad? He has DoA, but I'd love to know where it says he gives it to his unit, seeing as it would be completely superfluous.

As long as any guy in the BA list has a jump pack they gain DOA. also the down side to join the vanguard with any IC is they lose their heroic intervention, but also they dont come with jump packs and you have to pay for them. i have found that for points i would rather take a squad of DC. they may cost 5pts more per model but you cant beat them for all they get compared to just getting heroic intervention.

Okay, here it is. Buy one jump pack, get one DOA free.

Assault marines just plain have DOA in their special rules, so you can put them in a drop pod and you should be good to go with DOA. I'm not sure any other units in the BA army can do that.

Any BA model with a Jump Pack has DoA as specified in the wargear entry for Jump Pack.

Any unit that does not come with Jump Packs/has the option to take them does not have the DoA rule listed in their unit entry because they don't start with Jump Packs. Models that come standard with Jump Packs have the rule lsited because by default they come with the wargear that gives it to them.

infamousxiii wrote:Okay, here it is. Buy one jump pack, get one DOA free.

Assault marines just plain have DOA in their special rules, so you can put them in a drop pod and you should be good to go with DOA. I'm not sure any other units in the BA army can do that.

Haven't we been through this already? Just because a model has a rule does NOT mean that any dedicated transport gets the rule. Otherwise BA Land Raiders would be a TAD OoT.