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Okay so without using bloodcrushers or plague bearers, as I own zero, what would you change and why

Fateweaver
Herald of Tzeentch w/ bolt, gaze, mos, boon, chariot
(two spawn models jic)

Beasts of nurgle (5) w/touch
Flamers of Tzeentch (5)

Horrors (10) w/ bolt, icon
Horrors (10) w/ bolt, icon
Horrors (10) w/ bolt, changeling

Deamon Prince of Slaanesh w/ gaze, pavane, wings, ironhide
Soulgrinder w/ tongue, phlegm

Here's the plan
Make them come to me so I can maximize firepower with horrors, and tarpit their assault with the beasts.
Chariot runs sweep
Soulgrinder is for some variation, it can be thrown at really big horde units and may be able to exploit the use of the boon (see below). Yes I am aware of how dead it becomes from melta fire, but at 160 points it can do things another chariot can't.

Plan on making the most of Fateweaver + flamers +DP as a kind of uber unit.

I chose to add boon to remove pesky IC's, MC's, PF, etc.. (I'll get two of them with fateweaver and the chariot so good odds something is becoming a pet).

I don't want to hand out KP with this list, but I do see some other combinations that might be effective.


edit: sorry list is 1850 range.

Not having the daemon codex with me the first thing I'm going to say is that Soul grinders seem to die fast because why pump your anti armor into other guys when it will only give 1 wound maybe when you can blow up a soul grinder?

Another thing that I think could help you was the tzeench renders (eyes of tzeench or something like that) I think are good... well on paper I've only played against a blood thirster list so.

Tzeentch renders? you mean soul devourer gift or are you referring to screamers of tzeentch..

I had built the list originally with two DP of tzeentch, no grinder no herald but that seemed like it could be 'overrun' rather easily with a horde list, or massed bolter fire... the soul grinder isn't prone to that, but as mentioned does die to melta often... placed behind the beasts though it can benefit from fateweavers reroll for cover saves... which is my hope.

the melta concern is valid though...

Well the problem is that in a competitive situation Mech happens and happens a lot so people are ready for it. Everyone is packing something to kill vehicles and it means no reason to say waist a LC shot on a squad or what not that will only take 1 wound instead of hitting the soul grinder and possibly blowing it up.

Fiends of Slaanesh was what I was thinking about

There's no way that Soul Grinder is getting cover saves from the Horrors, absolutely not. I would call BS on that so fast that Fateweaver would explode into flames and Grand Father Nurgle would die from a heart attack/ stroke/ really stinky diarrhea. For 1850 this list will suffer. I would pour all of my fire into fateweaver until he died or ran away like the Galactic Space Chicken he is, and then your list would fall to ribbons. BS 3 bolts are garbage. Missing half of the time and and only occasionally doing damage isn't a promising proposition.

Im curious where it was suggested that the horrors would be screening the Soulgrinder. I had suggested Beasts since they are on the 60mm bases... and looking at the model clearly cover half of the soul grinder.

Fateweaver= pricey, but far from risky. I have played fateweaver alot recently, he ran once this is true enough... but 1 out of 14 times is not bad. Firing IMO is not going to kill this list, and if your wasting your shots on the FW your not shooting the soulgrinder...

- Hand to Hand might, particularly with a horde opponent... 90 gaunt attacks will do that... again enter soulgrinder option to tie that unit up if need be.

Beasts of nurgle are awful. In all reality they are just the worst elite choice possible. I would drop them entirely.

Flamers die very quickly. They are T4 with a 4++ but they will die to bolter fire very quickly. I suggest using two min squads of 3.

Only give one upgrade to the soul grinder. A single soul grinder dies quickly so dont waste a lot of points on him. Also remember its difficult to deepstrike those big models.

Daemon Prince is okay, i prefer Nurgle or Tzeentch.

If horrors are all you got then use them. I would take changeling every time tho. It really helps in the shooting phase.

I would remove boon. It is not considered competitive and its only used in fun lists. Simply not worth the points.

Overall the list is very weak. There is nothing that is really to be feared. Worst of all this list is almost entirely shooting which daemons really are not good at. This list needs some bloodcrushers or fiends of slaneesh. There really isnt any way around it, they are strong and effective for their points. I would also suggest another daemon prince. It would add some big tough muscle.

Also, you mentioned target saturation. That whenever your opponent is shooting at Fateweaver they arent shooting at the soul grinder. This really isnt an advantage with daemons as not everything is on the board at once. If you are lucky and everything comes in on turn 2 then this could work. More realistically this is only a very minor benefit.

I don't really like beasts at all. I proxied some back when I was running an Epidemus nurgle list and they didn't serve me well.

For your elites I'd say go with three units of 3 flamers. They are the best 105 pts. you can spend. Fiends are also great, and bloodcrushers work really well with fateweaver, he makes then that much tougher to kill.

Soul Grinders can be good, but I would not waste the points to give them both phlgem and tongue. Really with fateweaver in the list you might consider more DPs. Give them MoT for the 4+ save and keep them near Fateweaver for the rerolled saves.

I run two different tzeentch lists, one is actually a tzeentch/khorne hybrid. Both lists are pretty killy.

List one:

Fateweaver

2 heralds of khorne on juggernaughts

2x4 bloodcrushers, with wargear to ensure wound allocation

3x8 Horrors with bolt, 1 w/changeling

3 DPs MoT

List two:

4x Herald of tzeentch on chariot

3x3 flamers

3x8 horrors with bolt, 1 w/changeling

3x3screamers

3 DPs w/wings, MoT

I usually run two unit of 3 flamers as well, but I don't want to give away free KP this time, and invariably thats what they do (they cause some havoc but rarely kill what you send them after).

My alter ego was thinking of dropping flamers-replacing with fiends, dropping a horrors squad and putting in bloodletters.

In games where I can get away with counts as I always run the crushers, this tournement however is a bit stingy in that regard so I need to use what I have painted...

So looks like two DP tzeentch, no herald, no grinder...
maybe replace one horror squad with bloodletters w/frenzy...

deevil wrote:I usually run two unit of 3 flamers as well, but I don't want to give away free KP this time, and invariably thats what they do (they cause some havoc but rarely kill what you send them after).

My alter ego was thinking of dropping flamers-replacing with fiends, dropping a horrors squad and putting in bloodletters.

In games where I can get away with counts as I always run the crushers, this tournement however is a bit stingy in that regard so I need to use what I have painted...

So looks like two DP tzeentch, no herald, no grinder...
maybe replace one horror squad with bloodletters w/frenzy...

That sounds like a good idea. There are different forms of tzeentch DP's which you should consider. Some people like to take advantage of their BS5 and use them as mobile gun platforms with bolt and gaze. I personally think this is a waste of a daemon prince. I run my Tzeentch DP with Wings, MoT, and Unholy Might. A nice 185 point killing machine with a 4++.

Also, if you are going to replace anything. Replace the Beasts of Nurgle with Fiends. Beasts are just not good and are way over priced. Fiends are cheaper and do way more damage and arent slow like Beasts are.

Cool info