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I've been playing IG a long time, but have never properly used these fellas.

Whats the right thing to do?

Whats the wrong thing to do?

How to arm them properly

What squads to put them in?

What squads not to put them into?

Can I play them with Ogryns?



Thanks!

Put them with big blocks of conscripts is the best use. Armaments depend on who they join: For counter assault give PF. If their mainly ranged attack (SWS or HWS or stormies) give them a PP. With guardsmen give them watever you want. Put Lord commies with PCS or CCS, and don't put them with ogryns. Ogryns are too tough to take 25% casualties unless their in melee, but their stubborn so thats no bother. Their real usefull in gaudsmen and more so in conscripts coz of their bad ld and abilitie to take orders.

Conscripts are a waste. Just go for normal infantry squads and blob them. In my current army, I run 3x IS with one commissar. 4 power weapons with hordes of ablative wounds and lots of normal attacks can kick good in close combat. It is also a nice way to get more out of your orders.

The lord commissar is probably best as a babysitter for HWS's with his bubble and a standard, they will not run, and they will take orders much better. He is an IC, so he does not work very well in the standard role of the commissars.

tldr wrote:I've been playing IG a long time, but have never properly used these fellas.

Me neither kinda?

tldr wrote:Whats the right thing to do?

Assuming you're taking a platoon, if you bunch that platoon up for a kill point game, it's nice to have a commissar w/ a power wep. He helps prevent the enemy overrunning you, and also does a mediocre job killing them.

Some people find success and/or entertainment from the commissar lord. I don't have experience with this unit, but T3 and independent character never seems like the best idea to me.

Using Straken or Creed to grant furious charge can give a great boost to a platoon command with a power weapon commissar.

tldr wrote:Whats the wrong thing to do?

All imo: Taking more than one per platoon is a mistake. The PW attacks you gain could be had from a sergeant.

Taking one in a platoon command squad and not having a powerfist would also be wrong.

Taking a commissar without a power-something is always wrong.

tldr wrote:How to arm them properly

Taking a commissar without a power-something is always wrong.

An extra plasma pistol is a cool idea, because the commissar has BS4. However, shooting is not usually the priority for this unit, and a plasma pistol/pw commissar costs as much as an entire squad of Guardsmen.

tldr wrote:What squads to put them in?

This question pertains to a commissar lord, which I don't know a lot about.

I've seen players wanting to put commissar lords with conscripts (which is a cool idea), but conscripts are actually the same cost cost as regular guardsmen if you count a 10 point upgrade for veteran sergeant. That makes conscripts look pretty terrible.

tldr wrote:What squads not to put them into?

This question pertains to a commissar lord, which I don't know a lot about.

tldr wrote:Can I play them with Ogryns?

You could with a Commissar Lord.
I wouldn't recommend this, because ogryn come with all stubborn they need.

I hope I helped somewhat.

No plasma pistol on regular commies, he has one wound and bad save. You sure as hell don't want him firing a weapon that has a chance of killing himself

I never used to take commissars either, but I am starting to include them now.

The use for a commissar is self-evident. Commissars give the unit "stubborn". Stubborn ignores negative morale modifiers. When do you most likely see the most negative modifiers? Close combat. Add to this the ability to let the unit reroll a failed morale check, and the purpose of a commissar is blatantly obvious: put a commissar in a unit that you want to stay put even though it's in close combat.

When you'd want this is up to you as the general. Personally, I see the point as allowing a camping unit to stay on an objective on your side of the board, or to stop your opponent from assaulting you off an objective on their side of the board (or to tarpit the boogers out of a unit while denying them kill points). Commissars cost as much as an officer of the fleet or an astropath because they are roughly equally useful in the metagame, just for different concepts.

As for how to arm them, well I'd start by noting that I'd never, ever take one outside of a PIS. Officers don't have the durability to stay in close combat anyways, and the officers themselves are now much too valuable to risk loosing them to friendly fire like that.

As such, there are only two upgrades that they can take. For the plasma pistol, you'll have to excuse me if I think the idea of spending that many points for what will probably only be a single, short ranged plasma shot is anywhere near a good idea. As for the power weapon, well, remember that the whole point is to proof the squad in assault. As such, giving them a power weapon isn't the worst idea, as it only enhances the role for which you took them in the first place. Not necessary, sure, but not the worst upgrade in the world.

As for me, the blob I'm taking my commissar with is a superblob due to it's damage output. 2 PIS (sarge with PW), commissar (with PW) and priest (with eviscerator). A relatively durable blob that is very likely to get at least 2 power weapons and a priest on at least one objective. Damage-wise, ignoring the pistols and flamers, you kill 8 tac marines on the charge. As such, it is easy to envision a tac squad in cover on the obejctive getting swept away in a single round of combat leaving a stubborn blob in cover on an objective that can't be dislodged through assault. Expensive, sure, but it's a metagame nightmare for your opponents.

It kinda bugs me that squad commisars cant get a P-fist like the ones in a PCS can. But maybe that was deliberate to keep 50 man blobs from having 5 hidden p-fists :/

Mistress of minis wrote:It kinda bugs me that squad commisars cant get a P-fist like the ones in a PCS can. But maybe that was deliberate to keep 50 man blobs from having 5 hidden p-fists :/

That would be awesome. Of course they'd be strength 6 power fists so, meh.

Ailaros wrote:I never used to take commissars either, but I am starting to include them now.

The use for a commissar is self-evident. Commissars give the unit "stubborn". Stubborn ignores negative morale modifiers. When do you most likely see the most negative modifiers? Close combat. Add to this the ability to let the unit reroll a failed morale check, and the purpose of a commissar is blatantly obvious: put a commissar in a unit that you want to stay put even though it's in close combat.

When you'd want this is up to you as the general. Personally, I see the point as allowing a camping unit to stay on an objective on your side of the board, or to stop your opponent from assaulting you off an objective on their side of the board (or to tarpit the boogers out of a unit while denying them kill points). Commissars cost as much as an officer of the fleet or an astropath because they are roughly equally useful in the metagame, just for different concepts.

As for how to arm them, well I'd start by noting that I'd never, ever take one outside of a PIS. Officers don't have the durability to stay in close combat anyways, and the officers themselves are now much too valuable to risk loosing them to friendly fire like that.

As such, there are only two upgrades that they can take. For the plasma pistol, you'll have to excuse me if I think the idea of spending that many points for what will probably only be a single, short ranged plasma shot is anywhere near a good idea. As for the power weapon, well, remember that the whole point is to proof the squad in assault. As such, giving them a power weapon isn't the worst idea, as it only enhances the role for which you took them in the first place. Not necessary, sure, but not the worst upgrade in the world.

As for me, the blob I'm taking my commissar with is a superblob due to it's damage output. 2 PIS (sarge with PW), commissar (with PW) and priest (with eviscerator). A relatively durable blob that is very likely to get at least 2 power weapons and a priest on at least one objective. Damage-wise, ignoring the pistols and flamers, you kill 8 tac marines on the charge. As such, it is easy to envision a tac squad in cover on the obejctive getting swept away in a single round of combat leaving a stubborn blob in cover on an objective that can't be dislodged through assault. Expensive, sure, but it's a metagame nightmare for your opponents.

QFT. My friend runs a 30-50 man blob, depending on the size of the game. 4-6 power weapons on a charge huuuuurts marines. the horde of wounds, combined with stubborn re-rolls, gives you a tarpit that can actually fight back. I've seen the 50 blob get charged by a DP and 2 hive tyrants. It killed BOTH tyrants, and the DP was saved from the swarm by a mob of boys charging in (for those wondering how all these races showed up, it was a 3v3 game ) It seriously takes a long time to chip through that blob. I've even seen it stretched across 3 objectives!

I personally would never put any kind of commissar with a PCS or CCS. Since they execute the highest ranking (meaning highest LD) model in the squad they are attached to, that means you just handicapped your orders ability (if not lost it completely) if he executes the CO. There's not enough models in the CCS or PCS usually to justify needing the re-roll to morale, or the stubborn USR for that matter.

I do like setting one in the middle of a huge row of HWTs though. Nothing like LD10 Autocannons and lascannons! He also provides convenient counter-punch if the unit gets assaulted.

I hope I got all my facts straight. Forgive me if I didn't, it's way past my bedtime

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:I personally would never put any kind of commissar with a PCS or CCS. Since they execute the highest ranking (meaning highest LD) model in the squad they are attached to, that means you just handicapped your orders ability (if not lost it completely) if he executes the CO. There's not enough models in the CCS or PCS usually to justify needing the re-roll to morale, or the stubborn USR for that matter.

I do like setting one in the middle of a huge row of HWTs though. Nothing like LD10 Autocannons and lascannons! He also provides convenient counter-punch if the unit gets assaulted.

I hope I got all my facts straight. Forgive me if I didn't, it's way past my bedtime

Ya, I agree. Since a Platoon command squad cant blob up with its own platoon(which seems slowed) there doesnt seem to be any point for a commisar in a CCS unless you're trying for one of those silly assasulty guard builds and want another p-weapon or fist.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:I do like setting one in the middle of a huge row of HWTs though. Nothing like LD10 Autocannons and lascannons! He also provides convenient counter-punch if the unit gets assaulted.

I hope I got all my facts straight. Forgive me if I didn't, it's way past my bedtime

Yes, it is too late past your bed time. Commissars are no longer independent characters, which means they can't be assigned to an HWS. As HWSs can't take commissars as an upgrade, the only way you could have one is by taking a lord commissar and assigning it to the HWS. Not only does this mean you can only have 1 such squad, but that's also an abhorrent waste of points.

Mistress of minis wrote: But maybe that was deliberate to keep 50 man blobs from having 5 hidden p-fists :/

Exactly.

615 points for 50 dudes with 5 power weapons, 5 commissars with 5 powerfists, and a priest with an eviscerator. Ignoring the squad's special weapon fire, and even the 75 hits that the goobers will score in combat, the powerfists alone kill 12 marines on the charge (or put 12 wounds on MCs). Put the goobers back in and that's another 15 marines dead.

I'm just imagining this basically fearless blob of 56 storming across the field and multi-charging three Tac squads and a dreadnought and causing all of it to instantly vaporize. Throw in a few meltabombs to go with the eviscerator and vehicles will likewise dissolve in the face of the megablob. Given that it's scoring, you'd be a fool NOT to take this every game.

Ailaros wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:I do like setting one in the middle of a huge row of HWTs though. Nothing like LD10 Autocannons and lascannons! He also provides convenient counter-punch if the unit gets assaulted.

I hope I got all my facts straight. Forgive me if I didn't, it's way past my bedtime

Yes, it is too late past your bed time. Commissars are no longer independent characters, which means they can't be assigned to an HWS. As HWSs can't take commissars as an upgrade, the only way you could have one is by taking a lord commissar and assigning it to the HWS. Not only does this mean you can only have 1 such squad, but that's also an abhorrent waste of points.

Sorry, I wasn't specific. I didn't mean a regular commissar, I meant a Commissar Lord. Those ARE independent characters, and their aura of command covers multiple units. As lousy as their LD is, if you want to use orders with HWTs you almost HAVE to take a lord commissar with them.

hey Ailaros,

Whats the deal with Blobs? I just got back into 40k and the last edition I played was 3rd, so pardon the noob question.

on p.37 of your new codex, you will notice the "combined squad" special rule which basically lets you pretend like all your little squads are, in fact, really big squads.

It cuts down on the number of scoring units, but it also cuts down on the number of kill points. As well, it lets single squad upgrades effect lots of dudes (so instead of buying a vox set for every squad, you just buy one, for example). In this case, both the commissar and the priest get to spread their rules over more dudes.

hmm, this sounds cool... so basically I can combine any number of squads (besides command) in one platoon together and they act as one unit? Like if I have a heavy team and two teams I can have 20 units and 5 heavy weapons? (teams 3 plus squads 2)

this would drastically increase lifespan of the heavys

tldr: The rules are in the codex, but no, you cannot have two Infantry squads and one Heavy Weapons Team in the same blob.

You can, however, have two Infantry squads blobbed up. I generally go with one blob of two Infantry squads with Autocannons, Grenade Launchers, one Vox and one Commissar (see, still on-topic!) and sit a three-man Mortar team behind them.

Just the actual Infantry Squads can combine- not special or heavy weapon squads.

A squad can have a HW as an upgrade- but its its still 1 HW team and 1 special weapon per 10 man squad. (and 1 commisar per 10 man squad as an upgrade option)

Its all laid out pretty well in the new codex.

Looks like I've got some deeper reading to do...

while I've got guardsmen explaining things, what's the best way to use the commands and orders?

They're all really self-explainatory. Use "fire on my target" if the target is in cover "move move move" if you want your troops to move faster, "incoming!" if you want your troops to survive better.

Basically orders let you give a little boost to a squad. The boost you give depends on the battlefield conditions, which we are unqualified to comment on (not actually being there), and defy strong rules for use (because battlefields are never the same twice).

The only question that you have to ask yourself is how important orders are. If they're really, really important, then get a vox net. If they're not, then spend the money on guns instead.

Perhaps it would be better if you read the codex a few more times through and then made a new thread if you still have questions?

right, I was just following up this commissar talk in the tactics forum about how to use leadership, I should've been more specific in my questioning...

I'd like to poll the fellow guardsmen on their tactics for using the commands, how close to keep the leadership to what squad and whatnot.