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I'm not saying IG are elite, but tacs, dreadnoughts and termies look slow and lumbering, while stormtroopers, sentinels and guardsmen (mostly eleysian guardsmen, but Cadians are a bit like this) look fast and lightweight. Also, guard chimeras IMHO look faster than rhinos, and valks look like a match in speed for LSs. Also, the name "Space Marine" doesn't exactly sound epic, while Imperial Guard sounds way better. Am I alone in thinking the fluff doesn't match those two armies appearance? I'm not saying LRBT and bassies are fast and LS and assault marines look slow, but quite a lot of guard stuff looks (emphasis on "looks") quicker than their "Angels of Death" equivalents. It's not a paticularly big problem, and I'm not gonna tell GW to change it, but does anyone share my veiw?



And please don't send hate mail or things saying I'm being an idiot. I'm just voicing my veiws.

I think this too, to a degree, I think it's just the scale however. If all space marines were the right scale, they would look monstrous compared to guardsmen.

The only part I disagree with is the point on the Rhino's. I see them as the ground-borne equivalent of a drop pod. Big armoured pod that smashes through enemy lines, then deploying the marines inside. Built with armour and momentum in mind.

S_P

I believe it was the first or second HH book where this got covered, the bit where they land on the plague moon. It stated (heavily paraphrasing here, been a while since I read the book) that armored Space Marines can't sprint as fast as regular humans (half-ton armor does that to you!), but they have a 'battle march' that's close in speed that they can keep up virtually forever. So Space Marines have a lower top speed but they can keep going much longer. That gets abstracted down to 6" on the TT, as the Guard make short sprints followed by catching their breath while the slower Space Marines never stop! It all evens out anyway.

Also, if you don't like the name 'Space Marines' they're also called 'Adeptus Astartes'. If that sounds any more epic to you.

Rhino definately looks faster than a Chimera. Chimera looks like a piece of crap (which is why I love them).

I read that book Rube and don't remember anything like that. As I understand it Space marines are so fast and strong that even when they put on that half ton of armour they are still faster than a normal human. Also its called power-armour for a reason. It moves under its own power directed by its user's nervous system. If the suit loses its power than yeah The marine ends up going pretty slow.

Hrm yeah, checking the relevant section of the book I can't find anything on any battle march. There's actually a plot point about them outpacing the regular soldiers who get slowed down by the marsh! Hehe, fail!

Strength means little when it comes to speed however. It would help mitigate the weight of the armor, but there's a reason fast humans look like this and not like Schwarzenegger.

That and it would look immensely stupid, with their huge, armored boots cartwheeling around like the roadrunner. ;P

Space Marines are not only genetically and chemically enhanced, but they also have POWER armor, which dramatically improves their speed and abilities. Fluff wise they aren't "lumbering"

It's all a bit subjective, really. I'd say that the land speeder looks to be lightweight and nimble compared to the Valkyrie, which I think makes it looks faster. Similarly, I'd say that the Chimaera looks more bulky and therefore slower than the slightly more streamlined Rhino APC.

But here's the thing; that's just my opinion. Someone else could look at those models and draw completely different conclusions from them.

Rube wrote:Hrm yeah, checking the relevant section of the book I can't find anything on any battle march. There's actually a plot point about them outpacing the regular soldiers who get slowed down by the marsh! Hehe, fail!

Strength means little when it comes to speed however. It would help mitigate the weight of the armor, but there's a reason fast humans look like this and not like Schwarzenegger.

That and it would look immensely stupid, with their huge, armored boots cartwheeling around like the roadrunner. ;P

I always wondered what happened to those guys. Surprised they even made it through pure plague slime not to mention the battle. I don't think they bring them up again but they must have been slaughtered to a man. The Luna Wolves said it was the most exhausting battle they've ever been in. That's Guard for you I guess. (or Army as they called them back then.)

i think this is really interesting.

The IG have always looked weaker to me, not as a playable army of course, but the models looked like they couldn't take much damage while the space marines def look like they could take a beating.

i think this plays out in the other choices. the stormtroopers tend to look to me as soldiers who have some armor, but still focus on tactics and staying out of gunfire like a SWAT team since they know under that thin layer of armor they could be killed easily. The space marines just look like they could barge through a door and not care if there's a missile launcher on the other side, while stormtroopers might wait and have a need to plan their assault more, not really that they do, butthey have to, if that make ssense.

rhinos def look stronger than the Chimera but the chimera looks like, to me, that is more built to zip in desposit its troops then hope for the best, as if it was made for a more tactical field of battle where sustaining a lot of damage is not an option, while the rhino could if need be spearhead a charge.


What always bothered me was the size of the space marines, and the size of the dred, def the dred. it always looked like some stronger sentinal to me with better guns and more religious signs, and not like this epic warhero that towers above its fellows. Don't get me wrong, i love the model, and the venerable one looks muchmore like a warhero. i just never was entirelly inspired by how they looked thou i did wish to field a few sometimes.


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sorry for any spelling mistakes...

Well ,obviously the Terminators look slower, and the Dreads, but PA marines look like they could run perfectly fine to me.

It just seems that the marine models are a little small, or the guard are really big. That is a huge factor in how fast someone looks. Though yes I do agree that the marines seem a little slower than they should, I mean they are the scalpel of the imperium, not the hammer.

braindeadmonkey wrote:It just seems that the marine models are a little small, or the guard are really big. That is a huge factor in how fast someone looks. Though yes I do agree that the marines seem a little slower than they should, I mean they are the scalpel of the imperium, not the hammer.

Well, if I were having a surgery, I'd prefer a slow scalpel to a fast one.

Ya, I think its not that marines are too small. I think the Guard are to big. Cadians are the same size as a marine but look how small a Leman Russ is: and that's supposed to have 5 or 6 guys in it.

It's the heroic scale. All the heads and guns are too big and every tank is too small.

It's getting rectified with the some of the newer models. The old Terminators were barely bigger than regular Space Marines, but the new ones are much bigger. The Valkyrie is also closer to a realistic size. They can't change the Space Marines, Guardsmen, or the more classic tanks though because there are too many conversion kits that would become invalidated.

Not to mention the rule interactions. Who would play as newer, smaller Cadians if the older, taller models could get LoS easier?

Ya, but they should change it anyway.
I know the newer technology is allowing for bigger and better models and they might as well take that ball and run with it.

I think it all depends on how you model them. I know a guy that models his assault marines leaping forward like hormagaunts. It looks a tad cheesy, but it really gives them a dynamic feel. I dunno about the vehicles, though, the only ones that're really slow-looking to me are the LR and the Vindicator, which are both big gunboat vehicles. Personally, I kind of like that space marines just hoist and shoulder-fire weaponry that the guards have to mount on wheeled cannon mounts like WWII-era anti-tank guns. But that's just me.

MekanobSamael wrote:I think it all depends on how you model them. I know a guy that models his assault marines leaping forward like hormagaunts. It looks a tad cheesy, but it really gives them a dynamic feel. I dunno about the vehicles, though, the only ones that're really slow-looking to me are the LR and the Vindicator, which are both big gunboat vehicles. Personally, I kind of like that space marines just hoist and shoulder-fire weaponry that the guards have to mount on wheeled cannon mounts like WWII-era anti-tank guns. But that's just me.

Ya, its pretty funny Space Marines just walk around with Lascannons as if they were long rifles.

haha, i have always found that funny ^. and also that IG need two men to operate one, and the space marine just carries everything he needs with him.

Speaking of scale, consider the relative sizes of an Imperial Guard tripod mounted Heavy Bolter and a Space Marine man-portable one.

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of scale, consider the relative sizes of an Imperial Guard tripod mounted Heavy Bolter and a Space Marine man-portable one.

There's lots of differnt patterns for every weapon. Elysians even carry las carbines.

Yeah but a marine can't move and shoot a Lascannon at the same time, or at least not in the game. He can just pick it up.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of scale, consider the relative sizes of an Imperial Guard tripod mounted Heavy Bolter and a Space Marine man-portable one.

There's lots of differnt patterns for every weapon. Elysians even carry las carbines.

Yes...? And?

Nurglitch wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:Speaking of scale, consider the relative sizes of an Imperial Guard tripod mounted Heavy Bolter and a Space Marine man-portable one.

There's lots of differnt patterns for every weapon. Elysians even carry las carbines.

Yes...? And?

I guess I thought you were saying them not matching was some sort of mistake. nm.

If the SM look too small, it's because they're not in scale with anything else.

The guard are too big when compared to SM. Using 'proper' 25mm infantry for guard fixes this discrepancy, however (then SM scale up to 7 1/2 feet tall).

It also puts them at a closer scale to the vehicles.

chromedog wrote:If the SM look too small, it's because they're not in scale with anything else.

The guard are too big when compared to SM. Using 'proper' 25mm infantry for guard fixes this discrepancy, however (then SM scale up to 7 1/2 feet tall).

It also puts them at a closer scale to the vehicles.

Also has interesting effects on the scale of other minis; for example, Necrons now absolutely tower over most other troops, and Tyranid Warriors go from "pretty big" to "fething huge". Only problem is that Tau would probably be too large.