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I am going to build an army around Shrike

The idea is to have a 5 man vanguard with him - infiltrate, jump, fleet assault turn 1 - if i go turn two, deepstrike vanguard in Heroic Intervention and bring Shrike on with a regular assault squad...in any case...Also plan on having a terminator assault squad (TH, SS) cruising up in land raider -

Overall, the above is to just give a general Idea - will post entire list later...Sorry if this is the wrong thread but...

The question I have is this:

Vanguard 5 men - Layout as follows:

Marine 1) Sgt - Relic Blade Storm Shield
Marine 2) Thunder Hammer Storm Shield
Marine 3) Power Sword, bolt pistol
Marine 4) power sword, bolt pistol
Marine 5)??? I am thinking power sword storm shield so that if i get hit with a power weapon / fist i don't Have to take the save on the relic blade or TH in order to possibly survive...Alternatively in this case, could just drop the Power sword as well to make him somewhat cheaper, but not as effective on the attack - i am not overly concerned about losing one power weapon attack (with PW SS combo)

Goal of the unit is to be hard hitting, but also have some survivability from counter PW and PF attacks - in case unclear.

Would love to hear feedback-and thanks in advance

Well, the idea sticking Shrike to a Vanguard or a regular Assault squad is good.
I'd outfit all members of the Vanguard squad differently.
In this way, you can make use of the rule of wound allocation
which eventually reduces casualties.

Agreed. ^

If you can take a larger unit, I'd reccomend it. Especially if you're going to infiltrate them. One, two marines with standard loadouts are nice to take massed bolter fire against so you don't lose storm shield ones to weak attacks. IMO. If you're not taking the extra marines... maybe give the fifth marine a storm shield and standard CCW just to take wounds on.

The only problem with that is the hilarious flaw with Shrike and attaching him to a unit is that he loses infiltrate by hilarious RaW

Shrike in a unit of infiltrated Assault marines, Vanguard in drop pod. Both should hit in turn one. You might possibly look at setting up a unit of infiltrated boltpistol/ccw scouts with teleport homer to guarentee this Drop pod cannot scatter badly, but they are usually pretty reliable. 2" disembark +6" assault. Hull is about 2" from the center so unless you roll an 11 or 12 on scatter you should have assault range.

Vanguard in a Pod can not assault on the turn they deep strike. Attach Shrike to Assault marines instead.

Mixing weapons for the sole sake of wound allocation on a 1 wound model is not a good idea.

Some ideas how to kit out Vanguard: http://sonsofcorax.freeforums.org/tactica-vanguards-t1085.html

Wouldn't invest too many upgrades into a squad of 5, maybe 3 weapons and 2 stormshields max.

Hmmm... I was thinking that you couldn't take a relic blade and a storm shield because the relic blade was two handed.

Sandman wrote:Hmmm... I was thinking that you couldn't take a relic blade and a storm shield because the relic blade was two handed.

You were wrong Both items stops you from gaining an additional attack for a second ccw tho

@ shatter, re-read the dex and BRB, its only stopped if the unit is embarked, and usually pisses people off, Shrike+assault termies= angry opponent, however you only get away with it once or twice.

Thanks all for the advice...play tested it...didn't go so well, but that was my fault...multi charge the 5 man unit into trygon and tryanaid warrior prime...not good result...Shrike was not with them as his army deep striked (entire) so no reason to infiltrate them...

If just into one of those two units would have yielded better results, however, the need for an extra 1 or 2 standard guys would be good, +dropping one of the power swords.

Generally, I think that Shrike has too less synergy with an SM army.
The only exception I see is taking 3x10 fleeting Assault Marines going for the enemy throat.

skelerate wrote:@ shatter, re-read the dex and BRB, its only stopped if the unit is embarked, and usually pisses people off, Shrike+assault termies= angry opponent, however you only get away with it once or twice.

Actually its you who should re-read the BRB and especially the deployment part...Infiltrating assault termies is not something you can count on unless you clear it with your opponent first. RaW is pretty clear on this actually.

I'd say drop the Vanguards completely. They're expensive units, and they really don't do much more than Assault Marines anyhow,

I don't generally argue with most people whom I believe have more experience than myself however I do believe there are times when one must. Sitting in my living room with a cold miller lite, my codex, and the BRB after reading Tedurur' post is one of those times. Codex Pg 92, the "see, but remain unseen" rule allows models in Shrikes squad to utilize the "infiltrate" special rule. BrB Pg 75, infiltrate: lots of blah(not gonna type it, look it up) deploy units with this rule last...must be more than 12" away from from any enemy unit with no line of sight....more than 18" even in plain sight. BrB Pg 92 begins the "deploy forces" section,which ends on Pg 95, and covers everything from types of games to reserves and victory conditions, including infiltrators and scouts, the section on infiltrators is pretty straight forward and shouldn't require explanation. So lets take a glance at the assault terminators, all the rules on codex Pgs 64 and 136 are pretty straight forward and none preclude Terminators of any kind from having a special character join their unit or vice versa, essentially, if you attach Shrike to a unit of assault terminators and deploy them legally, they are a legal, infiltrating,fleeting,relentless pile of death and fury. The only exception is in the "dawn of war" scenario, in the little BrB on line # 13 it states "troops and HQ units that can infiltrate, can do so", all other game scenarios use the phrase "Deploy any infiltrators and make any scout moves". Is it a typo? I don't know, but I'll be darned if I care since I can just hold the termies in reserve and attach shrike to a troop choice if I want. having spent a little time typing and a bunch reading I am pretty confident in this finding however if I am wrong, please by all means correct me, but please sight pages and paragraphs if possible. I apologize for the long wind and any toes inadvertently stepped on. And again, it only works once or twice but its damn fun when it does.


I stand thoroughly and humiliatingly corrected by my own research, Pg 74 and that damn asterisk, I will forevermore bow to the wisdom of my betters. I will also remove the offending model from my list immediately and find an appropriate alternative! Yes this is embarrassing ,in case you were wondering, but I will leave the post as a permanent testament to my own stupidity!


Crow..............Eaten.

I would say unless you're playing a real douche-nozzle you should be able to do it. Otherwise, what is the point of Shrike's rule?

Also, if you like Vanguard, take Vanguard. Don't let someone's personal preferences turn you off from them.

Personally, I'm a fan of a big Vanguard squad with mostly power weapons and one or two wounds absorbers. Use them as infantry wrecker, and rely on supporting forces to pop vehicles. Take a Relic Blade if you REALLY want some extra power, but Thunder Hammers and Power Fists are SO expensive in a unit that's already nastily expensive. But, Vanguard are one of the best multi-purpose units out there so it's up to you. I'd specialize them towards one purpose or another, personally.

what is the point of Shrike's rule

To outflank said unit...

/shrug.

RAW says no.
RAI, only that person knows.
RAP is most likely allowed... but ALWAYS check before the game starts with the opponent or TO.

In addition, yes, take what you want.
BUT Pvt. Jet, if one asks for advise or what people think about a unit...they want that info.

Just 'wanting' thing doesn't make them any more cost-effective, or not suck compared to the BA versions......or just in general. .

See, but Remain Unseen: Shrike (and models in his squad) benefit from the infiltrate special rule (see wharhammer 40,000 rulebook) -- From the SM codex word for word.

If Shrike's ability gives both him and his squad the infiltrate special rule, the astericks on page 74 of the rulebook means nothing since again, both he and squad now have infiltrate.

Its cheap and insane to use that assault termies but it legal as written.

I should probably start a new post to ask this but since this is already a little off track,i'll ask.
does the codex supersede the BrB in cases like this, as it was written as a supplement?
To the OP, I would say vanguard are over priced for what they do, in order for the to achieve max effectiveness they cost a ton and if you min/max the unit for cost they get creamed as fast as a naked tac squad.

The price is the major turnoff to the vanguard, I agree.

If you want a squad that you can just load power weapons on, consider a Command Squad. It gets FNP (for added survivability) and if you like those first turn assaults with Shrike, give them bikes so they get there faster. Your max squad size is limited to 5 but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Shrike attached to one, infiltrate, 18" assault range is still pretty darn good. Course you can't "run" with bikes but the strategy is still worth considering if you like the unit's style.

Honor guard also can get you the power weapons but you need to pay for the chapter master.

And of course, the final alternative of just taking two assault squads and using numbers where you lack power weapons.