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Recently with the price increase i have decided to look around for alternatives.

Warlord Game's Imperial Romans have caught my attention.

Thus now im curious whether there is a difference to collecting these "Historical" vs
the usual warhammer we are all accustomed to.

The only thing i can think of is the color scheme , we cant paint them randomly right xD

Historical Wargames are the original and best. To be honest there isnt a huge difference between historical and fantasy/sci-fi they all have their roots in historical gaming. If you brought a 40k army you'd buy a book, do some reasearch and shop around for the best deal on figures. Its no different in historicals (except you'll learn something about history).
There is a set of rules and figures for just about every war ever fought in history and thousands of manufactorers making everything you'll ever need at competative prices (Unlike GW).


Theres a great big world of wargames out there, go explore!

Welcome to the club. I shifted most of my attention to Historicals about 3 years ago & have been having a grand time. I have not fully cut the cord with GW yet - I've been playing Warhammer Ancient Battles & jumped on the WAB2 bandwagon when the book was released last month.

One thing that has just occured to me is that with so many possible eras, how do you get a game?
sorry if this is a stupid question - do you get together with mates and decide which era for instance, or do you spread your army choices across the millenia?

Hoplites would be cool for me as Celts/Saxons/Vikings but it won't happen cos there are too many figures requiring attention.
I wish I had got into Ancients first tbh

Chibi the Suckerborn

The big difference is that with historicals there are literally hundreds of different rulesets you could use to play.

I just switched from 40k/fantasy to historicals, and will be playing 'Ancients' using the Warhammer Ancients v2 rules. The benefit of these is that they use the warhammer fantasy base mechanics (5th ed), so will be familiar.

The other major difference is the games tend to be smoother and less complicated, because there are fewer special rules since everyone is a human. Units might have different rules, but for the most part, they are all listed in the Warhammer Ancients core rulebook (there may be some supplement specific special rules though).

With re: to getting games, there are two options: find a club in your area, and find out what eras they play in (most large groups will play in several), or as was mentioned, talk to your gaming group, find a couple people interested in a certain era, and get armies for that era. There are dozens of miniature companies to choose from.

I am actually building a Roman Legion using Warlord Games Romans. I have 45 Legionaries done, and have archers, and a ballista waiting for paint. I also started on a Roman Fort. My friend plays Germans, and we've been running a small (500pts to 1000 pts) series of linked scenarios. So far, the Romans have had the better of it.

Cruentus wrote:The big difference is that with historicals there are literally hundreds of different rulesets you could use to play.

I just switched from 40k/fantasy to historicals, and will be playing 'Ancients' using the Warhammer Ancients v2 rules. The benefit of these is that they use the warhammer fantasy base mechanics (5th ed), so will be familiar.

The other major difference is the games tend to be smoother and less complicated, because there are fewer special rules since everyone is a human. Units might have different rules, but for the most part, they are all listed in the Warhammer Ancients core rulebook (there may be some supplement specific special rules though).

With re: to getting games, there are two options: find a club in your area, and find out what eras they play in (most large groups will play in several), or as was mentioned, talk to your gaming group, find a couple people interested in a certain era, and get armies for that era. There are dozens of miniature companies to choose from.

I am actually building a Roman Legion using Warlord Games Romans. I have 45 Legionaries done, and have archers, and a ballista waiting for paint. I also started on a Roman Fort. My friend plays Germans, and we've been running a small (500pts to 1000 pts) series of linked scenarios. So far, the Romans have had the better of it.

If you have them assembled , may i see them next to some GW figures please :3

Ask and you shall receive

Here is a picture comparing GW fantasy minis (Brets) to Warlord Games and Gripping Beast Romans. I use Gripping Beast for my command elements because I had them lying around. The WG boxes come with command units on their sprues. I'm going to use some of the extra WG command as Tribunes, Aquilifer (sp?), etc.

I also included a pic of a unit I completed (of course, I see little touchups I need to do now )





Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, as you can see, they are about the same height overall, but the arms and legs on the WG and GB tend to be thinner. Also, pilum and other shaft weapons don't look like phone poles typically.

With re: to your question about colors for armies, while it has been assumed that certain armies, ie. Romans, wore red, that has not been proved and is likely a 'hollywoodism'. If you look at any of the Osprey series of books on uniforms, you'll see red, undyed wool, blue, etc. shown. You really have a lot of leeway in how they're painted.

I painted mine with undyed wool uniforms (except command), but used red shields because those were the transfers that came in the box.

I like Gripping Beast Romans the most , their proportion looks most accurate.

Warlord games looks abit like heroic scale like GW

Yes, Gripping Beast have more realistic proportions than either Warlord or Wargames Factory. I was surprised at how small their hands and feet were when I saw them.

Warlord has large-ish feet, and hands, along the heroic continuum, but not quite as large as GWs proportions. To be honest, on the wargames table, you probably wouldn't even notice the difference.

The consideration for me was price. Gripping Beast is a little more expensive, but very nice models.

One advantage that Warlord has with the plastics is the ability convert, assemble, etc. compared to metals.

Were you looking to make a Roman army for ancients, or were you looking for a proxy for warhammer fantasy?

Ive owned a couple of armies from Gripping Beast in the past (from the EL CID range, Spanish and Moors) and they are by and large very good. I have to say though they would not be my first choice for Romans, Wargames Foundry being far superior in that period.

Cruentus wrote:Yes, Gripping Beast have more realistic proportions than either Warlord or Wargames Factory. I was surprised at how small their hands and feet were when I saw them.

Warlord has large-ish feet, and hands, along the heroic continuum, but not quite as large as GWs proportions. To be honest, on the wargames table, you probably wouldn't even notice the difference.

The consideration for me was price. Gripping Beast is a little more expensive, but very nice models.

One advantage that Warlord has with the plastics is the ability convert, assemble, etc. compared to metals.

Were you looking to make a Roman army for ancients, or were you looking for a proxy for warhammer fantasy?

Both , as well as collecting a "human" army.
I dont like Bretonian or Empire

Aldramelech wrote:Ive owned a couple of armies from Gripping Beast in the past (from the EL CID range, Spanish and Moors) and they are by and large very good. I have to say though they would not be my first choice for Romans, Wargames Foundry being far superior in that period.

Wargames Foundry, the porsche of historical miniatures

Foundry prices push them out of my price range (at least in the past, haven't looked at current pricing). Indeed, they are very nice models.

@LunaHound - that's cool. Another option that I might suggest would be looking at the Vikings in plastic being made by Gripping Beast (and their Saxon, iirc, line). Nice stuff. And, GW at one point had a "Norse" range of miniatures. So Vikings as a human army would fit very neatly into established warhammer fluff.

What would the Romans 'counts as'? Empire?

Of course, I'd rather keep the discussion in ancients I just received my second half of my Warlord Games shipment - 48 Roman Auxiliary. Those were the missing pieces of my burgeoning Legion mwahahaha... Oh, and Warhammer Ancients 2 arrived in the mail as well. Its a good day

I always thought 'Historicals' was wargaming... As is 'Fantasy' and 'Sci-Fi'.

They are all just genres of wargaming.

If you are asking the difference between Historicals and playing GW games, then cost is the main factor.

So would argue that decent rulesets are found in Historicals, but I like the Warhammer system and use ot for alot of historical subjects.

The difference for me is that things such as 40k and WFB just dont appeal to me, they feel even more restrictive than historical gaming. I play Fantasy, set in the halcyon days of Orcs Drift and MacDeath, but my Sci-Fi gaming has long since moved on from the depressing gothic 40k.

But mainly though I have a love of military history in all forms so Historical gaming to me is part of a much bigger interest. Its why 99% of my gaming is with historical periods... But many of these are 'what-ifs' or set in 'fictional' conflicts. Historicals is as free form and as unrestricted as you want, despite what many say.

For me its all about having fun with a few mates and enjoying the games.

Cruentus wrote:Wargames Foundry, the porsche of historical miniatures

Foundry prices push them out of my price range (at least in the past, haven't looked at current pricing). Indeed, they are very nice models.

@LunaHound - that's cool. Another option that I might suggest would be looking at the Vikings in plastic being made by Gripping Beast (and their Saxon, iirc, line). Nice stuff. And, GW at one point had a "Norse" range of miniatures. So Vikings as a human army would fit very neatly into established warhammer fluff.

What would the Romans 'counts as'? Empire?

Of course, I'd rather keep the discussion in ancients I just received my second half of my Warlord Games shipment - 48 Roman Auxiliary. Those were the missing pieces of my burgeoning Legion mwahahaha... Oh, and Warhammer Ancients 2 arrived in the mail as well. Its a good day

I only need Romans, does Gripping Beast have any in plastic?
Yes Romans would count as Empire though i didnt read their codex yet... have to do it soon to get an idea of what works :'P
I think atm im going with warlord games as well

Like you I'm just looking at swapping from being a soley GW player into the historical side. I've decided to get around the people to play problem in two ways.
Firstly I'm building a saxon army using Warhammer Ancient Battles. I've persuaded my brothers to colect Vikings and Welsh from the same era as none of my normal circle of freinds are too interested in historical. Also as the models will be based in the same way as warhammer models I am going to use them as a counts as for a brettonian army, calling them Albion.
The second era I've decided to go into is WWI and since I've just read the Seven Pillars of Wisdom I'm all fired up to play skirmish scale actions in the Middle Eastern theatre. I've chosen Contemtable Little Armies as a ruleset for this and as it can be played with small armies on each side I am going to collect both British and Turks, if people don't have to buy models they are much more willing to try a different game. Maybe this way I will even start them off on collecting some of thier own historical stuff.

Nice one tp! Sounds like a cunning plan!

re Saxons

Some of you guys that are interested in historical wargaming should look around you're local areas, you might be suprised that there is a group closer then you think.............

Yeah, but that would invlve meeting people. Not sure if that's my cup of tea.

The best way to start in Historicals is to find a local club.

Most clubs have enough players to be active in several periods, so you will be able to sit in on a few games without having to buy an army and stuff.

Another good tip is to visit a wargame show, where lots of demo games and participation games will be found. We have heaps of these in the UK. I don't know about the scene in Canada -- go here

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/topics.mv?id=107

for more info.

Key decisions in Historicals are time period and scale. The most popular periods are probably Ancients/Mediaeval, Napoleonic and WW2 however there are rules and figures available for practically anything you could imagine.

The most popular scales are 6mm, 15mm and 25mm (28mm) though again, there are many other scales available ranging from 2mm to 54mm.

There are hundreds of rulesets available and the most important thing is to play rules which other people are playing. If you are clever about the choice of base sizes, you can probably switch rules without much trouble.

Hey Lunahound and others
Be sure to searce yahoo groups and the internet for players and groups
BostonTrainedBands
Boston Trained Bands are wargaming group that plays (mostly) historical wargames ranging from the Ancient through modern periods.
Amongst these Medieval, English Civil Wars, King Philip’s War, Seven Years War, Napoleonic Wars, World War II and Modern Africa are popular.
We meet Saturdays at the Hobby Bunker in Malden MA.
http://www.bostontrainedbands.com/
This group just started
This group has been formed to energize and organize the Tabletop Gaming community in New England and the world. Our primary goal is to support Gaming related events throughout the Northeastern United States and any place else, and coordinate group activities, play games, and make some friends along the way! ALL Non-GW Games, Card Games, Boardgames ,Historical, Sci-Fi,X-box,computer and Tabletop gamers are welcome here! Our goal is helping to connect players for all games in the New England area and the world. Check our web site for news and info. If you’re a player sign up to find opponents and places to play If you’re a store make sure you sign up as well and help promote events and gaming in your venue take advantage of the calendar to post events and times! We promote gaming community growth and inter store play thru organized play, sharing info and camaraderie! This site is maintained and sponsored by Adler Hobby a small gaming store in Hollis NH. We encourage shop local and spend were you play!
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/tabletopleague/

the price! historical miniatures costs half or less than a gw miniature!