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It may seem a simple answer that anything that is a Hero or Lord (or takes up a slot) is a character ... but the problem is that the more i read the beastmen codex the more muddle it is. Ungrol four horns is take as an upgrade to the unit the replacing the normal champion (effectively he is another better champion), yet in the codex he is mention as being the only character that can ambush.

I've been a beastmens player for years and i doing my best to use the army without turning into a mass of Gore and Doom -bulls characters + as many rares as can be taken. The trouble is that the only way some of the magic would make sense is if it could be cast on to champions. I'm much more used to 40k where you get characters and upgrade characters so maybe I'm jump to conclusions but why would Ungrol be a character and not a champion?

So ... What exactly do you class as a character? Could a champion be effected by a spell that only effects characters? Am i missing a rule some where that states that champions use the rules for characters but must always remain part of the unit?

Champions are ONLY characters at limited times - for example in a chalenge they function as a character.

To be more clear, Nosferatu: Champions are NEVER characters. They just benefit from a couple of characters rules, such as "Look out, Sir!" and the ability to issue/accept challenges.

Fine i'll just put it down to a) forward planing for the next rule book or B) (more likely) another mistake by games workshop.

They've done this in other books. The Dark Elves, for instance, have two 'special characters' who are just buffed-up unit champions. There's also the Changeling from Daemons of Chaos. These models - though named - are unit champions in all respects.

Manfred von Drakken wrote:They've done this in other books. The Dark Elves, for instance, have two 'special characters' who are just buffed-up unit champions. There's also the Changeling from Daemons of Chaos. These models - though named - are unit champions in all respects.

Yep problem is that the wild lore has some spells that can buff characters ... though special characters are technically characters from what i can see they won't count for the spell unless they are also normal hero/ Lord characters, not just jumped up champions.

As it stands, I don't think they could be, as said above. Guess that's why everyone runs Bulls, Minos and that big burbling menace of a rare. As you said, hopefully the new edition...? Good luck to ya', and thanks for trying to be legit without being like everyone else; it makes the games a lot more fun.