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Simple Really, how would you propose the Whirlwind be changed in order to make it more competitive/worth taking?

(I recognise, if you know if you're playing a horde army then it's often worth taking, but this is about if you don't know what you're facing, also this is the generic Whirlwind, I'd rather not have Blood Angels players say 'remove the fast rule and lower points')

The only things that spring to my mind is either:
- A reduction of scatter if enemy is in LOS of a sergeant
- Make it Heavy 2, but increase points.

Your Suggestions?

Change to battery of 1-3 ?

I think the biggest limitation the Whirlwind faces are the limitations that come with having an Ordnance, Barrage weapon. I think the best way to rectifiy it's shortcomings would be to give it a special piece of wargear called "stabilizers" that allow it to move and shoot regardless. This would also bring it more into line with it's fluff. The Whirlwind is meant to be a fire support unit capable of keeping pace with a Space Marine assault, not a static artillery piece.

Alternativley/in addition to the above suggestion, adding additional types of warhead would add to it's versatility and viability. It's excels against hordes. How about giving it some punch versus vehicles and MEQs?

Sunder Missile
R:12"-48" S:8 AP:1 Ordnance, Barrage, Guided

Guided: Mark the desired point of impact with a small blast template. Roll 1d6 when rolling scatter. Only the area under the hole of the template is affected.

Punisher Missile:
R:12"-48" S:3 AP:3 Ordnance, Barrage, Small Blast

The Whirlwind can move and shoot - it just can't move and shoot at a target out of LOS.

The problem with the whirlwind is the same as all blast weapons - it misses half the time so needs to be taken in multiples. But, with the other options available in HS for marines would you give up two or three slots for whirlwinds?

Being able to take squadrons would help a great deal.

I'm sorry. Could you please specify what allows a Whirlwind to move and shoot it's ordnance barrage weapon? According to page 58 of the BGB, it can't, and I see nothing in the codex that gives it an exception.

Try reading P58 of the BRB Ordnance Barrage weapons paragraph 1-3

It specifies that ord barr weapons have two modes of fire - direct or barrage. Only in the case of the barrage fire mode is moving and firing prohibited. If fired direct then it counts as a normal ordnance weapon and normal ordnance weapons have no prohibition on moving and firing.

ETA:

brb_Ordnanc_Barrage_weapons_para2 wrote:
If fired directly at the target, they are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons (ignoring the minimum rane in the weapon's profile)

Commander Endova wrote:I'm sorry. Could you please specify what allows a Whirlwind to move and shoot it's ordnance barrage weapon? According to page 58 of the BGB, it can't, and I see nothing in the codex that gives it an exception.

On page 58 of the BGB, right column, 1st para: "...vehicles carrying ordnance barrage weapons can choose to fire them either directly or as a barrage...
If fired directly at the target, they are treated exactly like normal ordnance weapons..."[ie with LOS]

Missed that part. Good call. I seem to have skipped that paragraph.

Still, the suggestion stands. Let it shoot indirectly while on the move.

What other gear has Move & Fire Ordnance, Barrage Weapons?
What cost increase do you fathom it would be worth?

Bring back the mine templets as an option. Me and abuddy wrote a list of 3 each throwing mines each turn. Cover your opponents path with mines and force them to move in direction you want. right into your gun lines.

He won about 80% of his games agaisnt seasoned Vets.

Mines are cool. Squadrons are cool. But not both, OP. I would choose Squadrons, and some more ordinance choices.

Just Dave wrote:Simple Really, how would you propose the Whirlwind be changed in order to make it more competitive/worth taking?

(I recognise, if you know if you're playing a horde army then it's often worth taking, but this is about if you don't know what you're facing, also this is the generic Whirlwind, I'd rather not have Blood Angels players say 'remove the fast rule and lower points')

The only things that spring to my mind is either:
- A reduction of scatter if enemy is in LOS of a sergeant
- Make it Heavy 2, but increase points.

Your Suggestions?

Quite frankly, just an increase in AV. If it's going to be a static weapon, (can't move and shoot in the same turn), give me AV12, all sides.

I rather like the whirlwind and it works fine versus light infantry, it only suffers in all comers style lists. So if the goal is to make it more attactive versus all opponent types I'd give it some anti tank missiles as an ammo choice and call it good. Something along the lines of:

Heavy 3, Str 8 ap3.

(in other words it can basically choose to fire a volley of Krak Missiles).

Jack

whirlwhinds aren't bad, they just aren't good. You set up 2 whirlwinds on the left side of the board, one of your objectives on the right side and if you have anymore in the middle. Now your enemy can go kill the whirlwind, but they'll be losing models to strike at your objective. the objectives in the middle can be held by your opponent, but if he's holding them the whirlwinds will pound on him. if he ignores your whirlwinds, then your playing against someone who knows what they're doing

Is talking about the Blood Angels illegal here? Their whirlwind is fast so it can fire on the move. Just give fast to all the other space marine chapters but then the Blood Angels players will feel violated. (including me)